I’ve been watching South Riding on Masterpiece Theater – a story about an educator in Yorkshire in the 1930s. Both headmistress and teacher, the lead character Sarah Burton has so far inspired her students to discover poetry, comforted a motherless child, stood up to the town council, instilled feminism into the local mindset and helped birth a calf.
Movies about brave, insightful teachers who take on tough kids, deal with prickly parents and challenge stagnant thinking to end up respected, heroic and exhausted are a favorite of Hollywood. Not much different from real teachers.
Hollywood doesn’t make movies about teachers who are slackers and just in it for the money, who skip out of school when the bell rings and spend summers at their beach house. Who would believe that?
A good friend who used to be a newspaper reporter now teaches middle school. When we went to the beach I took the Sunday papers and she took a pile of homework to correct. I know what long days journalists put in but after watching her and my daughter and my sister-in-law and a number of cousins and friends, I’m convinced that teachers work harder.
My favorite high school teacher not only nudged me into the newspaper biz but shook up my brain and got me thinking about things like classism, sexism and racism. I imagine most people can name a stand-out teacher who made a difference. It’s always a teacher you remember, not the president of the school board or even the principal, except for shaking their hand at graduation.
Teachers are the action figures in the world of education. They don’t just talk, they do. Like cops and firefighters they are on the front line to spot trouble before it causes worse damage. They make the hard decisions on when CPS should be called. They know which kids aren’t eating and who’s doing their homework in a car or motel room. They know who needs a winter coat and find a way to get them one. They negotiate with parents who think their genius child is untouchable. These days they must also be alert to Facebook bullies and guns in backpacks.
All this makes teachers saints in many people’s eyes, until they say they’re in a union. Then they’re attacked as an overpaid, greedy special interest group who abuse tenure and close ranks to protect their under-performing over-the-hill sisters and brothers. Which is all horse-pucky, or as your teacher might say irrational, uninformed and not considering all the facts.
On an airport shuttle from San Francisco I met a woman who had been evacuated from Japan after the earthquake. She’d had to leave her husband behind. He’s a teacher at an American school on a military base and there was no choice but for her to come home to Santa Rosa and him to stay. As long as the school stayed open his loyalty was to his students.
Now, the public is being asked to stay loyal to our teachers. In California we’re told the only way to save our schools is by extending higher income, sales and vehicle taxes. In a complicated world that demands an intelligent citizenry and in a country where more than a third of men who don’t have a high school degree can’t get any kind of work, we need to stand by our schools. If the only solution to keeping teachers and kids in school is to pay more taxes, then we’ll pay more taxes.
It’s a no-brainer. Or as your teacher might say it’s obvious, simple, elementary.
Dear Wondering,
First of all, you will be in my prayers over the next few days. What a sad situation for you to cope with. I hope that he will provide properly for you ... Make sure you get legal advice right away especially if there's any possibi
Shirley,
Sounds like you do have a FABULOUS life already.I too have journals I kept of all ot my travels .They include my sketches of different places as well as recipes from local restaurants which I figures out on my own.
I will be 60 in
Bonsoir Anonymous & Carry On to you Shirley F! (smile)
I am so moved by your respective sojourns to France and England and APPLAUD you both, for being spontaneous; not afraid to take the path least travelled for you; and most im
You can’t see me but I am giving you a standing ovation on behalf of teachers everywhere. Thank you!
I believe most teachers are absolutely wonderful. I love what they do and that most do it for the love of teaching our children. However, I disagree with our public school system. I would love to see it out of the government’s hands, out of union’s hands and more in touch with each and every local community where they serve. At the very least, I favor school choice. I believe that a teacher should earn a fair salary and contribute to their own retirement fund like the rest of us do. I don’t like things like reading about teachers planning to include the children they are teaching in union protests -as a “field trip.” Apparently the union interferes with teaching the 3Rs.
Every state is having a major problem with their budget. Even my state of New York is planning on letting some teachers go. California happens to be the Worse State for Business (“No one in his right mind would start a new manufacturing concern here,” said one California CEO.”). How is that going to help? I would think more taxes will drive out even more businesses – and people.
Ironically, the state that improved the most for businesses: Wisconsin. It made the largest gain – moving from #41 to #24. I don’t believe it’s a coincidence. ♥
I wrote a response last night that flew out into cyberspace… I guess that problem is still part of VN. Let me try again.
First, I want to say that I think most teachers are wonderful! They do the job of teaching our children and grandchildren because of the love they have for their job. I believe they deserve salaries that are reasonable with their level of education and that they deserve a retirement package that is similar to what most of the country has – contributions to a plan like a 401k. In all fairness, I don’t believe they deserve more than any of the rest of us.
I’m also not big on the federal government involvement in education, nor am I big on unions for public employees. I side with what FDR had to say about public unions. I’m also not thrilled when I read stories about how teachers were planning to take their elementary students to a union protest as a “field trip” instead of teaching the 3Rs – until parents stepped in. I’m also a big fan of school choice, for a lot of obvious reasons.
When it comes to more taxes from a state that happens to be the worst in our nation already (Best/Worst States for Business) it makes me wonder what California is thinking? Even my state of New York (the second worse) is preparing to lay off teachers in order to try to deal with their budget problems as well as dealing with union demands. It seems to me that if CA is busy driving out businesses and raising taxes even more, they will end up on the downside of everything, budget-wise.
What I found interesting is that the State of Wisconsin made the largest gain toward being one of the best states for businesses – moving from #41 to #24. I don’t happen to believe it’s a coincidence.
If the money raised by more taxes was to improve education for the children, especially in some of the inner city schools that have it so bad, I don’t believe I would mind. But, if raising taxes is going to pay teachers more than average, or give them retirement packages that is above what an average person can expect, I do. ♥
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Loving , respecting and honoring teachers is one thing. its a noble profession. And so is that of nurses, firefighters, police and any number of other public servants. However, there is a distinct difference between having warm positive feelings toward a profession….and having feelings of distain for many (most) unions. I tend to not believe that public employees should unionize. After all by definition they are unionizing against “we the people” who are their employers. And to ask whether or not public employees should be able to join a union ispointless if the state is BROKE!
To continue to ask for more and more….to expect defined benefit pensions, retiree medical, etc…..when “we the people” dont have those things is what has irritated many about public unions.
I’m a fan of teachers. Im not a fan of unions. I understand the difference. And unions themselves are the big bullies too.
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Make that 3 members! ♥
Teachers Unions Explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxc6kzH-uI&feature=player_embedded#at=128
Although this could be done with the unions of any so called profession. Union bosses are union bosses are union bosses. As is union rhetoric.
I’d like to hear from a teacher who could speak to unionizing “against the people.” But in my humble opinion, and as a union (Newspaper Guild) member, I have always believed that unions are not against anyone but for the fair and equal protection and advancement of people.
Hopefully a teacher will come along that will be on the side of unions, so that we can all understand; when we discussed Wisconsin a couple of months ago, I did see teachers on both sides.
I’m assuming the Newspaper Guild is a private union? I remember watching Norma Rae and cheering her on… unions, I’ve discovered in a bit of research and in talking with others, are a great thing when safety and certain other issues regarding protection of employees against a corporation or unfair bosses prevail. In a public union, “we, the people” are the “boss.”
I don’t know if you followed my link on FDR; he was one of our more pro-union presidents, from what I understand, but had certain things to say when it came to public unions. Here is a link to his actual letter: FDR. While he wasn’t totally against public unions, he had this to say, in part:
…meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. ♥
I’m a teacher and I have belonged to a union. Your description is accurate. The purpose of the union was for fair and equal treatment. It was not aganist anyone but simply to ensure that our rights under the law were protected. Unions have been run out of town on a rail. There were problems with the unions but there are problems without them as well. I can honestly say that as a teacher I have mixed feelings about teachers being in unions. I wish we didn’t need someone to stand up for us but unfortunately we do.
I just came across a column today that said, in part, that San Diego Unified School District, has a $1.13 billion general fund and that benefits for teachers and staff are 93% of the budget – leaving 7% for student programs. I don’t have a copy of their budget, but did find this when I searched. It should help: $100,000 pension club. ♥
52% of the budget goes to students, where you saw 7% I can’t fathom….
Az, it was one particular school district mentioned and, as I said, I couldn’t verify it; I could, however, verify the retirement packages via the link given. ♥
The largest portion of any school budget has always been and will always be for teachers and staff and staff is the key word. There are receptionists in school boards that make as much as teachers. I think you will find however that teachers make significantly less money than other comparable professions. We make much less than teachers in other countries. Yet the myth that is being perpetuated is of teachers sucking at the government tit. A huge percentage of teachers leave at the five year mark because of how they are treated and the poor pay. It’s hard to support a family on a teacher’s salary. I was introduced to someone recently who when he heard I was a teacher sat back on his heels and yelled, “Why! Why would anyone want to teach. We treat teachers like crap and pay them nothing.”
We look to the educational success of other countries but neglect to mention that teachers are well paid and well respected in those countries. That hasn’t been true in this country for a long time. We are easy targets. I set aside a generous chunk of money every month to support what I lovingly call my teaching habit and I’m not alone. I know teachers who shop at Goodwill, drive second hand cars and make do so they can pay a student’s family light bills. Many of the students in my school have clothes on their backs because a teacher took money that they didn’t have and paid for them. But all it takes is a myopic article about salaries to put us back in the stocks.
wm, right you are… When I hear someone say that they respect and value teachers I know that they also think that we don’t work that hard after all so why should we want to make a good salary and have decent benefits? Never mind all the after school activities teachers volunteer for, all the hours spent on grading papers, preparing for classes… This attitude just shows that our children are not a priority in this country, do you know that the SPCA was founded way before CPS?
I taught for 20 years. The first 5 years were in Special Ed, those years totally drained me and I went on to teach French. I was offered 3 positions in the private sector (non teaching) which paid double what I was making but I was hooked on teaching and, fortunately, I didn’t have to depend on my salary alone to make a living.
In Europe and Asia, teachers are highly respected, they are special people who are compensated very well to teach the future generation. Nobody questions how many hours they work, how many benefits they feel entitled to or raises in salary. In this country, we adore sports people and don’t mind how much money they make…try and cut out the sports program in a school and see what happens!! I grew up with no sports program in my high school, we just had gym 2 hours a week. If you wanted to play a sport, there were clubs you could join.
Oh well, I could go on forever, it won’t change anybody’s mind. So easy to be an expert on something you have very little knowledge of….
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not vilifying teachers or even administrators; I know they work hard and a lot longer than the regular school day. I have nieces and friends who teach; they likely have student loans to repay, not to mention they have to make a living. As I said before, teachers should make a decent salary and benefits given their years of schooling and their years teaching. I also just did a quick search and found this; apparently teacher’s salaries do vary, but not necessarily placing the US in the bottom category.
All that being said, we are discussing unions and the fight to obtain more benefits from the taxpayer. If it’s like it was in Wisconsin, the teachers paid little or nothing toward their own health care or their retirement. When the taxpayers are paying retirement packages of over $100,000 per year – some on that list were over $200,000 – we all have a problem. States cannot afford this – especially California, by the looks of things.
If that’s what unions are fighting for I see no good in it. Those same children that we say we care so much about in our schools will be paying fairly high taxes for those retirement packages, along with everything else that they will be paying for. So which is the union’s priority? The children and their future or the retirement packages? ♥
We were discussing teachers and unions. Here’s a question for you, how much of that went to superintends and principals? People say teachers but trust me teachers are near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to salaries. The future of teachers is the future of children. We cannot have a democracy without an educated populous and that means attracting and keeping good teachers. That’s hard to do when they know that every single thing they do and say is suspect and they are begrudged a decent living. States cannot afford this because they don’t want to afford it. Funny how they can, however afford junkets for politicians and new sports stadiums. If we want a better tomorrow we have to pay teachers a decent wage and that includes retirement. Why is that a problem? It’s not a problem for the military and other people who work for the government, excuse me, the people. It’s just a problem when it’s associated with teachers.
There is a myth in this country that education is based on altruism and teachers should be grateful for the opportunity. I’m not a fan of unions for a number of reasons but you know what? Someone has to stand up for teachers and children and no one else is doing it. The future of our country is closely tied to the future of our children and teachers are a big part of that equation.
You need to check more than one source for your facts. It’s easy to google what you want and find what you want but educators like Mike Schmoker and Dr. Marzano are doing their homework too and have a very different perspective. I’m not advocating unions and you don’t need unions when people are treated fairly. I read a quote on this site that said many business believe that if a union comes in it’s because they deserve it. Many people are not fans of unions. We are fans of treating people fairly and teachers aren’t being treated fairly right now.
Yes, this discussion is about teachers and unions. I would feel no differently if it was about firefighters and unions, police and unions or any other public employee and their unions; I don’t believe FDR made a distinction, either. Teachers aren’t the only ones who do their job because they love it and they also aren’t the only ones who may not receive the compensation that one would get in a different area in the private sector.
I recognize that it is the future of our children, grandchildren and even great-grandchildren that we should be talking about – but it’s not. It’s the future of the teachers and administrators that appear to be foremost in the minds of unions.
I’m not on the side of a lot of where most states spend their money, either. In fact, I’m not necessarily for government “supplied” education. I wonder if an entirely different system might be better? No ideas, mind you, but while it is set up the way it currently is, most people have very few alternatives.
The only time a retirement package becomes a problem, in my mind, is when it’s all on the taxpayer to provide it. I worked for a number of years and contributed to my own 401k. I also paid pretty well to have healthcare for myself and my husband (at the time). I don’t believe it is either fair or right that the taxpayer pretty much supply that to most public employees – while trying to also build their own – without the same sort of contribution to these items that most of us have to make. Is there a reason that teachers or other public employees can’t also contribute just as the rest of us have done? Is there also a reason that someone needs to retire on over $100,000 per year on the taxpayer? I wonder if there are a few military retirees who command a $100,000 per year retirement? If so, I doubt very much it’s as widespread as what I saw in the link.
As you can see, my take on the union in the public sector has nothing to do with just teachers. I’ve never been one, so I don’t know first hand the kinds of things you may be on the receiving end of. I would like to know, from your perspective, how teachers aren’t being treated fairly right now. What is it that they lack and from who?
I truly believe a lot of people would – and do – stand up for teachers. I am definitely one of them; the difference may be in what we stand for. ♥
Teachers Unions do not care about the children….. well you know TL, teachers unions are for teachers, their job is to look out for teachers, I don’t believe that means they don’t give a damn about the kids just because they want what is best for the teachers! Teachers care about the kids but they need to make a living or do you feel they should just volunteer their time?
Stop confusing teachers and school administrators. Teachers in the public school system make less than in the private system but even that isn’t saying much. Do you feel that teachers are overpaid?
On to the pension.. the average pension for a teacher is $36,000, that includes professors who get a higher salary, a grade school teacher’s pension would be much less. That’s 30 years by the way.
The benefits are good and that is the reason many people who are attracted by the teaching profession go into it…trade off. lower salary and good benefits vs. higher salary and less benefits.
Now for school administrators. They make high salaries but remember that many of them have PHD’s, that’s a lot of years of education which cost a lot of money and they look for high paying jobs, wouldn’t you? The school boards hire the administrators and who is the school board? taxpayers….
Have you compared salaries between PHD’s in business administration working for corporations and the ones working for the public sector? Higher in the private sector with good benefits also…
And by the way, the $100,000 club is 1.9% of all retirees.
The public is an employer for public employees and an employer attracts good people how? good pay and good benefits. Period. The only difference is that a private employer will fire an incompetent employee but the public sector doesn’t often. In my opinion, that is very wrong and shoud be changed.
Unions have been useful in the past, some have gotten corrupted along the way, doesn’t mean that a rotten apple should spoil the whole bushel. If you’d worked in a job where you belonged to a Union you might still be working and then of course your perspective would be quite different.
And PLEASE stop quoting FDR.. I’ve seen that same post a dozen times, I have it memorized.
Since you keep saying that you really want to understand, I have explained it to you as has wm knowing that it’s totally futile but I get sucked in….
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Aznikki, I usually stay out of these discussions because they are futile but I’ve had enough! What is it going to take for people to understand what’s really going on?
The beginning sentence in the op was “teachers are saints until they say they are in a union.” Teachers are really saints until they want to be treated fairly and receive a fair wage. People use anything to bully teachers and begrudge them what other professions take for granted. If you don’t want unions then start treating teachers better.
How are teachers not being treated fairly? Are you kidding me? A former governor told a huge meeting of teachers that they were the reason the state was the mess it was in. Open any newspaper in America on any given day and you see teachers being attacked and villified. We’re either the super heros or the simpltons. We are not paid salaries that are commeserate with other professions with similar educational requirements. We are expected to pay for supplies with our own money and do. That’s like asking cops to buy their own bullets. Teachers almost never have a voice in school reform. This nation blames teachers on a regular basis. We are the scapegoats of America. The issues that effect education, poverty, unequal resources, overcrowded classrooms, poor parenting, violent neigborhoods and conflicting leadership or none at all are never addressed. Instead the might finger of blame is pointed at the teachers. And when we have the audacity to ask for reasonable working conditions or pay we are held to blame for the budget crisis.
I’ll tell you what, find a teacher message board, teachersnet is one, and ask teachers how they are being treated and what their pay is really like. What do we lack? Respect would be nice, a living wage would be good, decent health care for another. Wait, I know, why should the good American people pay for those things? Because we are educating your children.
The future of children is tied to the future of teachers. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
I have worked as a teacher my whole life and I have always contributed more money to my retirement and health care than my employer.
I don’t know any teacher who is getting near $100.000 for retirement. I do know a huge number of teachers who work second jobs to pay for second hand cars and more than one who will come close to losing her home becaue she was diagnosed with a catastrophic illness. But, you’re right, what right do teachers have to ask that they be treated with the same CARE and respect that we accord other professionals?
People stand up for teachers when they can supply lip service. When it comes to the almight dollar the buck stops. There’s something wrong when a Snookie can get paid more from an educational institue than a teacher.
There is no democracy without public education. That’s why I teach. I’m serving my country. I’ve served my country my whole life. But,that obviously means nothing.
I hate this discussion. It started out celebrating teachers and ended up attacking them. Once again, teachers can’t win. We can never just hear, “thank you” without having to defend and explain. I know, I know, you are attacking unions but reread your post from a teacher’s point of view or send to some teachers you know. I’m tired of defending myself and my profession.
There was a cartoon that had a older man who said, “Once great bands of teachers roamed the earth.” “What happened to them?” a younger man asked. “They starved to death.”
Teachers are being increasingly marginalized in society. If you think you can have a great society and have teachers lanquish on the edge think again.
The bottom line is that you think teachers should not be being paid what they are. They are being paid too much money. You can dress it up and defend your position all you want but that’s what it comes down it. How dare teachers want that much money and it’s always been too much and it will always be too much because this country doesn’t care about teachers and children.
I’m sorry, WM. I didn’t know that teachers really had it that bad; I read and hear very little on that subject. Had this thread been merely about teachers, it would have remained very upbeat – at least from this particular “fan club.” However, it was about unions and raising taxes. I rather wish, for your sake, that it had been about some other public profession so that it wasn’t quite so personal.
I know many children are in schools that aren’t good – not the teachers’ fault. In fact, something is very wrong with the whole picture as far as I’m concerned. I posted quite a while back about almost 40% of Chicago teachers sending their own children to private schools; not to mention having volunteer guards to get them there safely. It’s for those kinds of reasons that I favor school choice and don’t necessarily favor government involvement. It happens that I’ve been in rural areas most of my life and so have my children and, now, grandchildren. They haven’t had to face the kinds of things kids – and teachers – go through in the inner city schools. I can’t imagine; even more, I can’t imagine that in our society those inner city children are forced into a particular school just because of their address and because parents can’t afford to put their children in private schools; or that a homeless mother could be arrested for sending her child to a school where she “didn’t belong.” Personally, I think our education system is a bit of a mess. Again, it’s not because of teachers, but more likely in spite of them. Bottom line for me? I blame government involvement and promising so much of our children’s futures to current employees. Then I blame unions for fighting for even more of their futures.
I doubt all that many teachers get those kinds of retirement packages, but I was specifically looking at California. I’ve read enough things about CA to know that schools are only one tiny aspect of their budget problems.
I don’t believe there should be any reason to defend being a teacher. I know enough about you to know that you love what you do (not just because of tator tots and recess, either!). I’m sure many teachers feel the same way. I absolutely do believe that teachers are one of our greatest assets and, as I said at least 3 times throughout this thread, should be paid on a par with their education and experience – no less and no more. I truly believe the system is doing it wrong and, again, I don’t think I have the answer. I could be wrong, but it appears that it’s based on property taxes and federal grants. There has to be a better way.
It may or may not be true that this country doesn’t care about children. I happen to not be one of them, which is why you might find me on the “opposite” side of raising taxes, increasing budgets, giving out too many things at some “future” date as well as a few other things that have the potential to destroy our children’s future.
Meanwhile, because I care, I’m not going any farther with this. I’m simply going to say “Thank YOU!” for being a teacher. ♥
Thank you.
Having been a special education teacher in the inner city of a metro city and reading some of these posts, I understand why our education system is not one of the best in the world. We do not really care enough or understand the importance of providing our children the best education we can.
First of all we need to understand why Teachers’ Unions exist at all and the fact that the majority of teachers at the elementary level are women. The media focuses on the salary and pension issues when it talks about these unions. It does not often address the other issues that they are fighting for i.e. class size, reading programs, safety to name a few.
As far as the federal government’s involvement, what would have happened to some of our children, if President Ford had not signed into law P.L. 94-142- which said that all children including special needs children deserve to be educated and if the school in their area cannot provide that education then they are to pay for them to attend a school that meets their needs.
All children need to be able to have a good school environment so that they can learn and become productive individuals. Privatizing our schools in NOT the answer. We need to be better stewards of our monies but we all pay if children don’t learn. Many states pay more money for their prisons than they appropriate for the schools. Don’t you think something is wrong with this?
Hi DonnaJ,
Having worked in a state mental health system for 30 years, I appreciate the difficulty of your job and the dedication it requires.
First let me say that I disagree with your implication that not enough is spent on education. The truth is that since the 1970′s education spending has increased substantially (more than 180%), while math, reading and science scores have remained fairly flat: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/chart-of-the-day-federal-ed-spending/
That being said, I agree that teachers are underappreciated. I also believe that they are being scapegoated for something that is not their doing–the poor scores of our children. I actually fault the unions for this situation.
Because of this post I read up on the NEA and the AFT and found that while unions started out representing the interests of teachers, they have become political machines seeking their own agrandizement and power. The attached article (starting at number 7 in the article) has some interesting insights into the workings at higher levels of the teachers’ unions when the AFT and NEA attempted to merge:
http://clogic.eserver.org/2-1/gibson.html (please note the extremely high salaries of union execs and secretaries).
Also, when you go to the websites for these two unions, note how many areas of the political spectrum the unions are involved in. They are using your union dues to support all those causes and their salaries.
Teachers are the front line in education and when students don’t get results, you are the ones who face the parents. Those parents only care that their children do well academically–they don’t care about all the unions’ other political activities. Unions are using teachers as their buffer, as well as their money source, while they gain power for themselves. It’s the same power grabbing game that political parties play. Meanwhile………….our entire society suffers.
Incidentally, I’m very interested in why you think privatization is not a good alternative.