“Sam, you have to help me!” I cried into the phone.
“What is it babe, try and calm down and tell me what’s wrong.”
“I don’t get it , I’ve become the “QUEEN OF ONE DATE.” Yep I gave myself a new title, “Jewish Princess” was out. Although I liked the promotion to Queen, the rest of it sucked.
“What are you talking about?”
“Well, I think that kind of sums it up. I never get asked on a second date. One date and I’m out. I don’t get it, no one calls again. Why? What should I do? Or what can I do?”
“Don’t talk,” he responded without hesitation.
“Huh?” Was he talking to me or about me?
“Don’t talk when you go out with these men. Just listen.”
“Huh?”
“Let the guy talk his brains out, don’t compete with him.”
“I don’t get it, just sit there like a lump?”
“Just sit there and smile. Or ask a question.”
“Huh?”
“Ask a question about him. Men like soft and sweet.”
“Excuse me?” I think all the blood was rushing dangerously to my head.
“Gail, you don’t get it.” He was right I was faint and didn’t get it.
“What about a conversation?” I whispered as I began to lose consciousness.
“Men have competition all day in business and don’t want it with a woman during down time.”
“Is a conversation competition?”
“See how you are? You’re challenging me and I’m giving you advice.” He was serious. I stepped out onto the patio for air.
“So we’re talking about an evening where I’m just smiling and asking my date questions about himself? There’s no conversation where two people equally exchange thoughts. Is that what you’re saying?”
“That’s what I’m saying honey.”
“And if I do that I’ll get to go on a second date?”
“That’s right.”
“Well, thanks for the advice.”
“Let me know how it goes.”
I laid down on the patio in order not to faint. As I stared up at the dark sky I realized I couldn’t follow Sam’s advice. Could he really be right? I had to chose a vow of smiling silence or forever maintain my title of “Queen of One Date?”
I decided to stop dating.
other blog entries from »
p.s. I dropped your name on Gina's post, Barb. ;)
thank you so much Lisa, that helps a lot. I know he tried to blame me for so much stuff, but like I told all of his family and mine none of that added up to a divorce. I do realize it's his needs, it just hurts so bad to think how many years he's
Seriously. You seem too nice to have to go through this kind of anguish…
Thank you. That was a verbatim conversation! And the it seems to be true.
You know, I’m thinking that your friend didn’t mean for you to keep quiet forever, just for the first date! It might be worth an experiment. After the second or third date, if he hasn’t asked you about yourself…NEXT!
You know I didn’t ask him if he meant forever; knowing him he probably did. At least he probably wants the women he’s involved with to be quiet forever!
you mean you wait for the second or third date for the j… to show some interest in you?????
I am the Queen of one date and I confess that it bothered me. Then I had an ephiany. By having one date I didn’t let something drag on for months. I was able to cut to the chase. I stopped feeling rejected and started feeling blesssed. Most of the men I go out with I know socially through whitewater boating. I know them and they know me and we know if we’re right for each other after paddling a few times, and yes, one date.
Well at least you’re starting with a common interest which is good. I also think I’m dating an older demographic who weren’t raised with women of the boomer generation. We developed a voice and men of the previous era weren’t exposed to us early on and apparently find it over challenging.
I am 62 and feel like I have been around the block a few times. I am also a widow and have been alone for 10 years. I have met many men thru dating sites. One came from California to meet me and stayed one week, another from Michigan and stayed for 6 months, the last from Ohio and moved in with his step sister to date me for 5 months. The last guy lives 3 hours away from me and we are still friends after 6 years!
Men like “guy talk” but are very nervous and scared around the woman especially a yakky one. My son and I have also talked this over and he agrees. With the divorce rate as high as it is there are many men on the market. They may have already bombed as a husband. That doesn’t leave him with a lot of self esteem. Until they feel secure with you, they aren’t usually confident. Talking is what they know, what they do everyday, it is their defense.
I have two graduate degrees but that is the last thing I would let a man know! I may never tell them. As they say in the South, look pretty, look interested in him and smile. Ask questions if there is a lull in the conversation. Your time to shine will come. Until then remember that old adage. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
Well I hope you’re proud of those two graduate degrees, I would be. I try “honey” sometimes and “vinegar” at other times depending on the man. I was born in New York so it is hard for me to pick up Southern ways. You know how New Yorkers are!
Said like a true southerner, but damn this gets old.
THis is great – and I agree. I also have the opposite problem – guys don’t want to leave. And I think it’s because of what my mom told me so very many years ago – keep your mouth shut! I am highly educated, and eventually it comes out – after all – I speak most of the languages of any of the restaurants where we might to – so they get the message. But, it’s not in their faces. So many New York women feel they must “hold their own” that they forget basic psychology. Dale Carnegie had it right. Smile and let others do the talking. (Men and women) Thanks for your comments.
except you are stuck with flies…
Gail — you only have to do it for the first date, the second date it’s your turn to talk…..I do a lot of listening to my partner, but he know if he doesn’t listen to me to, he will eventually start hearing all kinds of unsolicited opinions, about his driving, about the TV programs he is choosing, etc. etc. because the words just have to come out one way or another….
Well you’ve got a “sensitive” man Sunblossom – some men are shocked when you actually start talking a few dates later .
NO NO NO!!! BE your self! If he doesn’t like you his loss! Ok let me be calm….In any relationship, friends, lovers, family, whatever, being considerate and not monopolizing the conversation is good. But not talking so you can feed his ego and make him think he is the most facinating person in the room so he will ask you out again? Why would you want to go out again if he doesn’t want to hear about you as well! WE are enlightened women and do not play these silly games so we can “catch a man”. Crazy!@
I just started reading this thread, and you’ve said here what I’ve been thinking as I’m reading. Game playing….ick! Been there, done that. I think like you said you need to be considerate and not take over the conversation, but to purposely put on an act goes against my grain.
Well, now I know what I’m doing wrong. Pardon me as I CHOKE.
I know doesn’t it just make you gag?!?!? It is crazy, I mean who wants to just nod and smile when there is interesting conversation to be had?! What’s wrong with that picture?
It’s going back to the dark ages. Next we’ll be in corsets and tripping over petticoats. These men need to get over the all about Me syndrome.
We ARE Vibrant Women.
I agree and perhaps it’s because mothers including myself always always pay so much attention to their sons. They think Mommies are forever!
Excuse me? If he doesn’t want to hear my views, I don’t want to hear his! Having a date can’t be more important that being authentic.
I agree. When did this all become so difficult?
Was it ever easy? My friend at work has been telling me about her 20-something daughter’s problems just meeting someone, let alone dating. Her daughter’s laments are almost exactly the same as the conversations I’m reading here.
Remembering back to my own young & sexy days, I think the angst I felt surrounding dating and relationships was much more intense then. At least now I know I don’t need a guy in my life. Sometimes I think it would be nice but, realistically, there’s so much a woman who’s used to being on her own has to give up in a relationship, I’m not sure it’s worth it. I’m thinking a canary instead. As for a social life, I’ve met friends with similar interests on meetup.com and I’m more socially active than when I dated or was in a relationship!
I actually think it’s harder for kids these days. My son is 32 and a doctor and went to an Ivy League school, and is adorable and funny and never meets anyone. He actually wants to get married and have children. I have a friend with a daughter who has the same problem and she is also a doctor and pretty and smart and athletic. I think the younger generations travelled in “packs” too much of the time and never separated to meet and greet new people. When I was in my 20s it felt easy and much more fun. I used to meet men just walking my dog which btw is a great way to meet others. Of course all the people I meet with the dog now are married. I agree maybe the time, effort and trouble it takes to get to know a new person at this age isn’t necessary or worth it. I love hanging and going out with my friends also.
I agree with JoanPrice – it’s about being authentic. For me, if I ever have to be in a relationship again where I’m not heard or don’t feel my authentic self is valued, then I don’t ever want to be in a relationship. I’m far, far, better off with friends and alone time (which I love). Gail, be yourself and follow the socially acceptable rules of conversing – period.
As for our beautiful young people today, it is a mixed bag for them given the dust of the feminist / sexual revolution hasn’t fully settled. They don’t have concrete “gender roles” to follow like Teacher’s Pet suggested they do in the South, and are instead more forced into being authentic selves at younger ages, which maybe they have or haven’t figured out.
My daughter is 25 and it’s been a joy watching and hearing about her dating life. She has a motto: “If they don’t treat me like a goddess ON THE FIRST DATE, then they never will and I’m not interested.” The thing is this is her authentic self and the men KNOW it. She’s had more marriage proposals in the few years she’s been dating than I’ve had in a life time.
At this life stage, we know what we want. Make sure your pursuits are in alignment to those goals and be yourself.
I do think the “women’s movement” shifted the roles of women and men. Women took on the jobs and responsibilities of men and men are still confused. Especially the men who pre-date the change; they are lost and confused and still trying to figure out why a woman is talking and voicing an opinion. I have more hope for our daughters/sons as they grew up under the proper tutelege. Your daughter obviously thinks highly of herself and how she should be treated which is great.
At this stage men and women both know what they want. But my dear J Anne is chemistry still possible?
I’m one who doesn’t want anything to do with chemistry if that means mad passionate love on the first few dates. When I was younger, the chemistry thing ALWAYS led me down a bad road because I lost my senses and sensibility. No thank you. I think love / chemistry develops over time like a slow-cooking gourmet meal. It takes time and effort to get to know someone, build trust, and enter into an intimate relationship. For me, this is the sweet nectar of love.
I’ve been dating a guy for 9 months now and we haven’t had sex yet. We only can see each other about once a month and we’re both really, really good with taking our time. No pressure, wonderful conversation, great companionship, and honesty.
So again, it really depends on expectations. If you’re looking for chemistry, that mad passionate stuff, you will find it. But, it doesn’t mean that it will turn into the long term relationship that you are seeking.
I agree with you that a lot of men of our age group are uncomfortable with our voices and opinions. I married one and divorced him 2 years later. I don’t want anything to do with such a man ever again. There are men out there of our age group who have caught onto all of the changes and value our voices. I wish you the best, Gail!
thanks for your good wishes. It sounds like you’ve found a balance that works for you in this relationship. I find it a little shocking he hasn’t pushed you for sex, but I like the “getting to know you” aspect.
You’ll have to define what being “treated like a goddess” means. If it’s your daughter’s MOTTO, and you use it proudly as the essence of her AUTHENTIC self, then I’m at a loss. Is it of a spiritual nature? zsa zsa
Zsa Zsa, being treated like a goddess is a modern metaphor for being treated with respect, consideration, kindness, and genuine care. I didn’t say any where in my post that I use it “proudly,” nor did I say anything about her “essence,” so I don’t know what you’re getting at. It’s her motto; it works for her; and her authentic self is such that she’s treated as such.
I suppose you could read a spiritual component into it if you’d like to, though that’s not the way I intended it.
Gail, remember the song “Just the way you are” Billy Joel sang it first, one of the phases was”I don’t want clever conversation, don’t want to work that hard”,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPiK_yGG8ag- they don’t want women that can “walk and chew gum”. Most perfer studip or silent don’t talk, but smart ! duh, l.o.l……TRACK
P.S. keep your eyes pealed, there are whose who want a good conversation.
Never thought about those lyrics…kinda scary aren’t they? Read SeaWriter response at the bottom of page – she ran my vow of silence experiment and apparently it worked. Check it out.
I do think many many men prefer women who are not as smart as they are. And yes, there are men that do want a good conversation. Bless them.
Gail, I had a funny thing happen this afternoon. I had a first date/coffee date. I was thinking of your post and thought I’d do an experiment. I toned down my usual conversational manner. I listened a great deal and occasionally asked questions, though I also answered the ones he asked. In truth, I let him do most (like 90%) of the talking. Fortunately for me, the man was fascinating. We parted on good terms and just now I had an email from him. He told me he thinks we have a lot in common and he’s looking forward to getting to know me better, and he apologized for doing all the talking. I’m usually a very good listener, he said. Thanks for putting up with me.
I think the poor man was just nervous, and his way of showing it was to talk, talk, talk. He finally began to relax, and all in all, I enjoyed meeting him.
Who knows what the future holds, or whether there will even be one (I share your crown, my dear. I am the Queen of One Date, Pacific Northwest Chapter). But I thought I’d file this report from the field, just so all the sisters can observe and ponder.
xox
Oh my God I burst out laughing …. not at you but the fact that perhaps the vow of silence works!!! That is so funny and I don’t know what to make of it. My post might have helped you get a second date – now you’re one ahead of me!!!! Keep us all posted.
I think the key to SeaWriter’s approach was that she applied some understanding to the man’s side of the fence. Just like everything is not always ‘all about them’ – it’s not all about us, either! Men are almost as nervous as women, almost always, on a first date. You may not ‘see’ it like you might in one of us, but it’s there and can manifest itself in many ways – talking a lot being one of them. It’s a give ‘n take situation, I think. Of course…THIS coming from a soon-to-be 59 year old gal who hasn’t dated in roughly 30 years!
I agree both parties are probably nervous. I can’t imagine it’s just the woman. A good way to control one’s nerves is asking questions – let’s one settle in and relax. It is a bit discouraging however if the other person doesn’t reciprocate with some questions in return. A lopsided evening is pretty boring. I hope you never have to start dating!
I am a 58 year old widow and have kissed a few frogs. I have decided that I like both my own company, and that of my friends and sisters much better. the men of our generation are so boring, because everyone is right – it is all about them and a lopsided evening is pretty boring. It is liberating to do whatever you want, whenever you want!
Like I mentioned a few comments ago – dating these days is like taking biology all over again- too many frogs to dissect. It is liberating to do whatever you want, whenever you want and have good company when you want!
Yes, please keep us posted.
Yes, look forward to hearing more, I like that ‘Pacific Northwest Chapter” lolo
Have a good weekend!
I think you should try it. A man friend gave you advice and you should at least try it. He may be right. On the second date speak a little more and then on the third be yourself 100%. By that time he will be hooked on your charm. Or, if you have a few drinks and forget these rules, start all over again with the next one. Dating is too hard. I do not think i can do it again. But let us know what happens, this is good to know just in case.
Dating is almost impossible . I could fall asleep and see if my date notices. That would be the best experiment wouldn’t it? Then just think if he asked me out again what that says!
If I’m myself on date three after two dates of nodding, smiling and agreeing and then I suddenly have an opinion….I could give the guy a heart attack or risk not getting asked on date four! Like I said “almost impossible.” I have to many stories yet to tell.
Wait a minute, Gail… are we living the same life?? And, I thought that I was the Queen of One Date! I talk when I’m nervous and I’m nervous on first dates, so it’s a no-win situation. Yet, I am who I am and I’m not going to change. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts!
Marian W: Maybe we are leading the same life! I think a lot of people including myself are nervous on first dates and chatter away. And I agree I am who I am but I used to be more successful when I sat there and asked endless questions. People especially men LOVE to talk about themselves. Of course a few dates later when I talk more about myself they don’t like giving up the spotlight. It’s confusing.
I am recently single again and have not been on a date in years. My son set me up on a blind date with one of his friends (an older gentleman). I was too nervous to go alone so I told him he and his wife had to double date with us. As it turned out, I am their babysitter and they couldn’t find another one so the grandchildren went too. I can’t believe it but not only did I get a second date but also a third.
He talks a lot but he is very interesting and he does ask about me also.
Now that is a good story. I’d love to hear the continuing saga!
For 25 plus years I have managed an upscale restuarant. I have observed just about everything you can imagine. Including first dates…some the woman just left the table…But I have always marveled at how many couples double date…and how the women sit and chat to each other and the men carry on there own conversation. Maybe find some one willing to indure the first date with you…sit and observe.
I bet you have some funny stories. Watching these date unfold must be amusing/interesting! I would be more uncomfortable on a double first date – I like to go it alone at first, then I don’t have to worry about everyone having a good time.
yeah I think I would stop dating too if that was the deal…..after all who would want to date if you have to be someone else? Or maybe just only date men who have a brain in their head
we could begin to ask new kinds of questions, eg
‘what would it take for me to meet and date vibrationally compatible men’ and
’what would it take for me to get a 2nd date with a man who is great?”
We dont need to answer ourselves, just keep asking the question of ourselves in a gentle way and notice what we notice and who we get noticed by
That’s the law of attraction, send out your question or request and let the universe respond! It does work.
My girlfriend wrote a fabulous book about the law of attraction – a simple way of understanding joy and attracting it. “The Ever-loving Essence of You” by Jamie Lerner ; it has a web-site http://www.ever-loving.com I read it over and over and have been trying to have the law of attraction work for me. Interesting concept.
I’m beginning to understand and study those vibrational pulls and the law of attraction. Those are great questions you pose! I hope everyone reads what you wrote.
You have a twin! Perhaps not biological but certainly identical. I call myself “the one date wonder.” I’ve met men on the net over the net and eneded up totally puzzled how you could exchange emails, chat on the phone, have a man interested enough to want to meet and then puff like magic they disappear. Ironically I had a male friend, partner of a gal pal, tell me to “shut up.” He said men don’t like to talk, unless you’re an ESPN sportscaster (and if you look like Barbie that would also help), and much prefer woman who are “the silent type.” I have yet to totally give up hope with dating but now it seems that the “puff” doesn’t need a date – they are registered on a single dating site and don’t respond to a casual 2-3 line email – I would prefer being told to go to h— to being ignored but…
I’ve had the same experience: emails, chat on phone and talk about meeting and then disappear. I don’t get it either. I think the internet is like the Neiman Marcus Christmas catalogue; you can keep picking a new item and there are too many sometimes to decide or there’s always a better one if you turn the page. I’m not a big fan of internet dating anymore.
Sometimes I despair as well. Men seem extraordinarily socially awkward to me. A few months ago, I had a disasterous date with an Italian cardiologist. I even wrote about it because it was so bad and he spoke about himself the entire time. He didn’t ask me one personal question. I wrote him a very pointed email telling him what I didn’t like about our date when he kept asking me out afterward. After a few more communications, he asked for another chance and we are currently dating companionably. And he listens to me too AND asks my opinions. Sometimes they are just bad first dates. I’m not sure how long it will last but right now it’s going fine.
As to why they don’t call after the first date, maybe it’s a chemistry issue. Men are always looking for different things and we may not fit their particular ideal. Have you watched “Must Love Dogs.” Do. It’s precious and does illuminate this issue.
Good luck. There’s nothing wrong with taking a break from dating for awhile to recharge your stamina. Remember, you too are in control and you may not want a second date.
I think it’s great you told your cardiologist what was on your mind re: your date. I did that recently to a man who didn’t listen to me and just kept telling me “I heard you the first time.” He was very condescending and finally I just gave him a piece of my mind. He also seems to have listened….but who knows is old dogs can learn new tricks?!? He’s kind of old.
Men are addicted to chemistry I think. I’m on a break.
Here’s how I do it. Men like to be in control, or think they are. So on a first date, I get comfortable and then lay back and see where he is coming from and going to. It’s not that I am shutting up and being some bimbo, ego massager. Au contraire, I am using my powers of observation, and direct eye contact to size him up, see what he is about, listen to what he has to say, and respond just enough to shed a bit of light into my vast wisdom. (I am going to be 51 in a couple weeks and the one thing I get the longer I live is wisdom!) This drives them crazy, they want to know more about you but you aren’t giving it to them….yet. I am in control but I don’t have to say too much (thank goodness, dating is supposed to be fun, not work), just enough to let them think, wow, she’s confident,real and got it going on. Feminine mystery is a powerful tool, use it! Try this, it works for me and it is enjoyable to watch them try to figure you out, and try to put a nice label on you but they can’t. Ha ha. Above all, have fun.
Kittkatt – I’m with you 100%. I’ve been reading this chain, and wanted to say exactly what you did. As much as I love to talk – yes, shocking isn’t it? – you DO learn more by listening. So listen, watch, and learn. What better way to see who this guy is and whether you want any part of him? If you sit still and pay attention, anwering quiestions if asked, and inserting natural, but limited, comments as appropriate, he will reveal his true colors in pretty short order. I love Seawriter’s story! See how well it worked? Not the part about getting him to call back. The scorecard for a successful pairing is not tallyed by the number of dates. isn’t a “real” two way connection what we’re all after? So Seawriter’s guy passed – not because he wants to see her again, but because he “got it” that he had monopolized the conversation, aplologized, and wants to try again. Big points. Let’s keep our fingers crossed for her – maybe one of the frogs has turned out to be a prince after all!
Thanks Sarah G! It does take practice to master the art of the first date. After awhile you get good at listening, observing, and paying attention. I agree that if you do these things then you are better able to learn whether there is a true connection. If you don’t hear back, assume toad and move to the next. Be positive, and stay in your power.
Interesting approach from both of you; obviously you are in agreement over this method. I probably tend to talk too much in search of a stimulating conversation. I might be in search of intelligence rather than a nice guy ; the bane of my existence.
I’m enjoying this chain! I’ve had a similar experience with not talking as much and doing more listening and figuring out if I like what I hear from the man. They’ve stepped right up and held their end of the conversation, and asked me questions as well.
I think it has more to do with men wanting to know you feel comfortable with silence. That you don’t have to fill every second. That you can just ‘be.’ Women usually talk more when nervous and this can make us seem less confident and secure in ourselves. A woman secure in herself can handle silence, and can handle the (sometimes) awkwardness of silence. I’ve been around women who talk all the time and have been that person on occasion myself (until I reined myself in). It’s exhausting.
Making an effort to slow oneself down on a date – to take in the full presence of the person (which you can’t do if you’re focused on what to say next), and making eye contact, can really electrify the air between you. You can still talk, just pause before answering a question to really consider your response and don’t rush in when he’s talking. Sometimes when men are quiet they have more to say and are figuring out what it is. We often rush in much too soon and cut them off.
True. I can be a “cutter offer”….and there are men who would testify to that fact. I try and contain myself, I really really try…at least I think I try. I also believe men aren’t as complicated as women think they are. “Eat, sleep, have sex”….replaces “Eat, love , pray” for our boys.
I’d be willing to follow this advice if we were talking about men who reciprocate the prescribed behavior, but how many of those are there around?
I’m extremely tired of people who regard EVERYTHING as “competition”. It is tedious to have to adapt every behavior to deal with their problem. I’m not a threat! I’m not trying to put anyone down! If s/he feels that way, well then, *maybe* s/he is insecure and doesn’t think well of themselves.
I can understand giving some to the guy by being quiet and listening and re-assuring him that he’s not under attack, but there’d better be some giving on the other side too and, more importantly, he should be interesting enough to be worth it and I guess I just find insecure types also just pretty darned boring.
I agree with you. Conversation is not competition; it simply makes an evening more interesting. In the end I don’t do well with insecure men either.
I think it was very interesting that the simple question you asked your friend was seen as a challenge. I certainly didn’t see it that way. I think the worst mistake people make on a first date is talking too deeply about any one thing. Don’t give too much information about you or your life, and certainly go easy on the opinions. Nothing turns people off faster than an opinionated person (I know, I used to be one!). Strong emotions are also a no-no until ou know each other better. Just general light chit-chat is great, and ask questions about things they talk about to show your interest. I’ve always let the guy do all the talking during a first date so he can relax a bit.
Another thing. If you have been hurt by a past relationship, this is NOT the time to talk about that! A lot of men I know complain that a woman they just dated went on and on about how some guy she dated totally messed her up. Again, too deep and too much to deal with on a first date. We all have problems, no one is perfect, but a first date is not a confessional, no matter how comfortable you feel with the guy.
So I agree with a previous poster. Go easy on the first date, be kind of generic and polite, and just observe. With each successive date, be a little more of yourself. Eventually it will be clear if you are mutually suited for each other or not. Have you ever called back to ask any of these guys for a second date, or asked why they haven’t called for one? Just a thought. Other than that, all I can think of is if you have an odd or loud laugh, or other strange personal habit that is a little “out there” that might turn people off. A double date might be a great idea for you to try. That way you can see how the other couple are acting on a first date and compare yourself. Also, your friend could give you tips throughout the date or after the date is over to let you know what you might have done differently, if you can handle the criticism. Kind of like a coach.
It’s really tough at our age. I wish you much luck in your dating endeavors! You seem like a very fun, energetic and interesting person to me, perhaps you just haven’t found someone worthy of your company yet.
<3
“Worthy of my company” that must be it. Truthfully there aren’t many men I want to go on a first date with no less a second, but sometimes I’m miffed because I think we’ve had a great time and then nothing. Most of my dates out here in Palm Springs are Match.com based and I think that is a blessing and a curse. Blessing in as much as there’s an endless supply and curse in as much as there’s an endless supply. I sense many men run back to their computers to find the next woman if you have one flaw. The grass is greener law applies to interenet dating I believe. We’ve all heard stories of how it can bring happiness and i actually lived with a man I met on Match…..but in the end we were so different and didn’t really know each other or understand each other and it was disaster. It is difficult to cull out the ones whose backgrounds, life experiences etc are similar or compatible enough to make something work out. Again I agree with your “It’s really tough at our age.” Truer words were never spoken.
I’m almost with you Gail. I think I’m about to give up dating and thinking about life as portrayed in the series of books about the Ladies of Covington. Three women share a household’s chores and expenses and their individual experiences in a new state and lo and behold….they each find fulfillment and love in all their new ventures to the initial consternation of their children!
I love that!
Gail – This is a great post! And I, fellow talker that I am, can so relate. I wrote somethiing below in response to Kittkatt’s advice to look at the “listening” opportunity as a great tool – not a command to stifle yourself! Afterwards, was thinking about Russ and how it was when we “met”. We met online, after about a week, he asked if he could call. I had the worst case of laringitus in my life. No voice at all, It was a struggle to do anything more than croak. “We” talked for 11 hours straight -all night! I have laughed with friends about the “Universe’” intervening – forcing me be shut up and listen. I had no choice! 90% of the words were his, but boy did I listen. It was an event that changed my life in more than one way. An object lesson in value of listening, and, more than two years later, Russ and I are still happily together. We’ve never stopped talking, but don’t worry, my voice came back!
Wow!!! Great story. It’s the universe at it’s best or your allowing it to happen. I’m glad your voice came back and that in the end you talk to each other and enjoy it. What did he talk about for 11 hours while you croaked back?? I love happy stories, they are encouraging and bring us all hope. Nice.
If you don’t believe that the silent treatment is really the right way of going about a first date (and I don’t believe that it is) then you need to get a second opinion from another male friend who may see things totally differently than Sam.
In this day and age, I don’t believe women have to be so submissive on a first date. Keep looking Gail because when you meet the right man for you on your first date, you’ll know it and you won’t feel uncomfortable about your behavior during the date and you will feel happy and special and appreciated for the intelligent woman that you are. We have to remember there are alot of immature men out there who can’t be bothered to be more thoughtful and show interest. Its hard work for them!! Take care and Happy Easter
I try and remind myself that only certain types of men have ever really liked me. They are usually very smart and self confident. All the others have stumbled or run for the hills. I only do well with types that aren’t threatened by intelligence and someone elses opinion. Hopefully the boys being raised by the new generation of mothers starting with the baby boomers ,who work, think and stick up for themselves will be better mates when they are looking for a partner.
Good morning ONE DATE QUEEN! Don’t give up if you really want a companion. He’s out there…
My younger sister has the same pattern. I happen to be having a drink with her one evening when one of her dates showed up early and joined us. Ahhh…now I see why she has one date only.
My sister is beautiful, smart, loving, fun…lots more. She’s a young 42 year old too. I listened carefully while the two talked. I noticed she was nervous so she kept chatting and trying to keep the conversation going before he had a chance. She also gave him too many kudos before he deserved it. Men like to hunt…don’t forget that. It’s primal and that’s why we love men. My sister is the hunter. Most men don’t know how to handle that. Should she change, not really. But if you come on too aggressive men get scared. I see it happen all the time. I have several women we call “man eaters”. LOL
Yes it’s 2010, women should be who they want to be. But no matter what time period we are in, men are men. You can be strong, independent, successful, sexy, funny and cute but don’t run the show…during the dates. Ask questions, listen, listen…remember you are on a date, trying to learn about someone, not running a business, or responsible for the date or the outcome. It takes two.
Sounds like you want a second date. Have a girlfriend “by accident” join you on a first date sometime. Now, this girlfriend has to be someone you trust. Have her stop by, ask her to join for a short period of time and have her observe YOUR behavior. You might find something out about yourself and how you come across. I’ve had this happen to me. I learned a lot about myself and how I came across. It wasn’t easy to come to terms with my stuff, but I had to accept it if I wanted to be in the game; I had to learn how to play. Don’t hate me for saying that but it’s true.
I usually speak with a man on the phone for a week or two before I agree to go out on a date. This helps me get a sense of who they are and if we will enjoy eachother’s company first and foremost. This screening process told me a lot about the men I was talking too. If me came on too sexually, I knew they were trouble. Some men became angry because I wanted to learn about them first. They weren’t sensitive about my concerns as a woman. That isn’t a man I want to love. By the time I would go out on a date with them; I really liked them as human beings. So if it wasn’t a love thing…I had a new friend and or a great date.
I have a daughter who men fall in love with all the time. We tease her about it this! So, I observed her one evening. She is a good listener, she doesn’t appear needy, she has interesting topics to discuss, she has many hobbies that are interesting, she is beautiful (that helps, but that’s not everything). She is very careful and watchful of body language and facial expressions. She listens well. She dated this sexy school teacher for about two months. She really liked him but she kept telling me “mom he’ll be too old fashion if we get married. I really like him and he’s so intelligent, interested, sexy and successful.” I felt for her because he had so many great qualities. But she’s so smart. She knows she needs a man who is flexible, not controlling, not set in his ways. The breakup was hard for her. He became upset with her when she didn’t want to watch the Superbowl with him, and when she said she would rather workout, tan and eat non football food. lol Got to love her….. Her instincts are good. She still misses him but she will not settle.
Ciao Tamara
Thanks for chiming in over here! You make some good points and kudos to your daughter for being confident in herself and her choices.
It is easy to slip into the pattern of talking too much when it feels like a conversation is lagging. Silence can be scary on a date and indicative of nothing or something wrong. Sometimes it can be hard to judge which it is so talk talk talk talk makes it feel better.
Don’t quit dating. There are still older men who want an equal (or even a more well-read and educated) partner. I married my husband 14 years ago when we were both still in our 40s. Later on, the thing he said that attracted him to me was that we could converse on diverse subjects; I could keep up my end of the conversation on religion, politics, trivia, whatever. For the past 6 years, he has so completely believed in my intelligence (when others didn’t) that he has put me through school. I’ve received my AAS, BA, and on March 20, my MS; he now encourages me to go on and get my doctorate, even though I turned 60 in November.
I know many men married to intelligent, vibrant, talented women who don’t feel threatened and are actually proud of their wives’ accomplishments. It is one thing if all your conversation consists of is fashion, beauty, clothes, etc., but if you are the intelligent woman I’m assuming you are, there is a man out there who will be absolutely thrilled to have such a multifaceted and brilliant woman by his side. It matters little that you may have to endure being the Queen of One Dates for now; one of these days, the right guy will want more of all the gifts you have to offer. In the meantime, continue to cultivate all your gifts, be they intellectual, artistic, literary, or whatever…it will make you an even better companion and you may even find that you are quite satisfied with your own company and don’t even need a man. Whatever happens, I wish you well on the journey that is your life.
Teresa
Go granny go go go….get that ph.d! Congratulations on your accomplishments. And kudos to your husband for being strong and confident enough to let you shine.
I think that Julie had a very mature approach to meeting her needs. Dating is a dance – both parties have a need to be heard, especially when you live alone and have hopes that you have met someone who may care about you Perhaps looking at the first date as the opportunity for you to get to know your date is smart. The ideal would be for two people to equally be able to share who they are equally, but the reality is that doesn’t always happen for a number of reason. We can all talk more when we are stressed or nervous, because a first date has a lot of high anxiety. It takes time to let things settled down for a person to really show who they are. When you do the listening, you have a wonderful opportunity to find out who he is before you give your heart away. I think having some questions to help you get to know your date, such as, “what is important to you?” will help you get to know your date before you share of yourself. This may be a very smart move on your part as you will be in control. Why would you want to tell someone all about yourself before you know who you are sharing with? After several dates, if he shows no interest in who you are, then that would be a perfect time to have the conversation in a non-defensive way that Julie had with her cardiologist. It just takes time and in our instant society where we push a button – we have forgotten how to dance. Don’t give up on men in a general sense as they all as different as we are – and none of us appreciate being judged as a whole.
I think it is really important to get to know someone. I know men who are in love after 2 dates….they have no idea who the woman is, just that she’s attractive. It take time and you’re right in our fast food culture we don’t slow down and examine who the person across the table is or listen to what they’re telling us about themselves. I’m guilty of this myself and it ends badly. Listening carefully is good advice. We are no longer a listening nation.
You are funny! Thanks for a good laugh!
I actually think it is a smart strategy to not talk and let them do all the talking. You listen, you observe and you should know before the end of the evening whether or not you even want a second date.
That is good strategy as it’s as much the woman’s decision as the man’s regarding date #2.
Wow, Gail, this thread really has legs.
Thought I’d give you an update. The man who apologized for talking too much is quietly pursuing me, and though I haven’t been able to get together with him again yet (due to conflicts in my schedule and in my desire to see him, in all honesty), maybe I will soon. Meanwhile, i have another coffee date tomorrow and one on Saturday, too. Gotta stay in the game.
I’m starting to see that dating is an opportunity to use the listening skills we’re trained for as counselors, where it is called active listening. It’s more than passively collecting information. It involves affirming, asking questions for clarification, and reflecting what is being said. I’m not saying I want to therapize my next date (spare me!), but there are definitely some skills from my working life that are important in any kind of relationship building. The key word is relationship: when a man and a woman sit down to talk, they create a third entity, and that entity is the relationship (I wouldn’t tell him that, though, because the poor word seems to connote entrapment these days). Both parties make contributions until a relationship takes shape. This is where it resembles a dance. Trust grows from the process.
Whew. This is not what I expected to be doing at this stage in my life, but at least I feel better prepared for it now than I did during my last dating go-around before I was married many years ago.
I know they’re out there, Gail — and all it takes is one, right? Then we can hang up our dating shoes and get on with the business of sharing our lives with our sweethearts, just the way Sarah Carter is up in Maine (I love her internet love story).
Well I am so glad you updated me and everyone else on this post. We were all waiting with baited breath!!! Truer words were never said than “This is not what I expected to be doing at this stage in my life.” Ditto for me. Did I pass up too many great guys or is this the path on which I’m supposed to be traveling?? And of course the old old saying “it only takes one” is still true. My Dad still likes to tell me that! I recently lived with a man so I learned IT IS REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT TO GET TO KNOW SOMEONE!!! REALLY IMPORTANT. I’m not sure you know however until you live with the person. Oh the things I learned when I moved in. Oy and crap. Keep us updated!!! Promise.
Hi Gail,
Thanks for the post. Your friend gave you some good advice. However, I don’t believe he was telling you to change, he was just suggesting to look at your situation another way. This could simply mean taking this time while you are not dating to look within and consider some of the ways you may become a better date. I always suggest to women to date yourself. Try to look at yourself the way the other person looks at you. If you are experiencing a series of one dates, it may not necessarily be your dates, it could be you.
I consider the purpose of dating as a process of meeting, and sharing thoughts to determine mutual interests. This process creates levels of progression and increases the intensity to see each other again. Obviously, there is something about you that attract these men to have the initial date, so don’t be discouraged, just focus on enriching your life. When your light shines you don’t have to say a lot, your spirit will speak for you.
It’s all very tiring isn’t it? I like the things I’m doing now and the dating part is too laborious at the moment. I just want to go out have a drink and relax.
Bev52 Gail Maria. I feel your pain. I too like to talk and to top it off have a rather loud laugh. I’m sure it annoys most of the men on the planet! I have been married for 23 years and my husband likes to remind me every now and then that he just isn’t interested in my conversations ‘as he is watching yet another sports event on TV’. And I remind him how I don’t really appreciate the fact that all he does is go quading, biking, snowmobiling and watch sports events on TV. When I go way back to our dating…. I remember well how my husband (aged 23 at the time) took me to piano bars and sat on outdoor patios talking away to me all afternoon as we people watched! I listened intently to every word he had to say about his motorcycle and yes, I even went for rides on the back of it (feeling terrified the entire time). It was great when we finally got married and went our separate ways. When I want to chat for hours on the outdoor patio, drink wine and laugh much too loud – I go with my equally chatty and boisterous girlfriends. And then I come home make dinner for my husband (right…. food, isn’t that what they all really want???), while he watches yet another sports game on TV.
If I was going to start dating again… I think I would ask him what his perfect Saturday would look like with his wife – of course you have to hope he will tell the truth – if he said ‘sitting on a beach sipping margaritas’ I’m in – if he said “a day out quadding with my friends and coming home to a home cooked meal” I’d be running as fast as I could out the door! Ha!
Well at least you have a group of fun girlfriends to chat and drink with on the patio. I for one really don’t like spending the day with dates. In fact I really really don’t like it. I lived with a man who didn’t like to watch sports and I love to. So I sat alone and cheered and screamed for my teams while he thought about how much he hated me or the relationship. He didn’t drink either so even when the games were over we didn’t sit out on the deck very much…only when I insisted. Of course like you I never noticed these things when we were dating. He turned out to be a rabid tea party republican and doesn’t like to sit and read outside or watch sports or take a walk when it’s hot out ….or cold.
Good dating doesn’t always translate to a good marriage. At least most women have fun friends on which to fall back – thankfully!
Well Gail Maria…. if you like watching sporting events – I’d say you are halfway there! Never mind the dinner take your date to a ball game instead! It will be love at first site!! ha
I know this sounds crazy but a lot of men aren’t into sports these days. I meet the ones who have taken sensitivity training and like to shop. Sometimes I know more about sports than men and that doesn’t work out too well. I’m proud of my sports acumen so it’s hard to keep quiet.
Gaaaiiillll – if you like sports and intelligent men, then I hope you have included this front and center on your dating profile. It could be that what you have on your profile is drawing exactly the wrong type of men.
I keep reading that “dating is so hard …” Well, it’s not hard – it’s easy. It’s hard when you’re attached to the outcome. So, enjoy (or not) the interaction and drop the expectations.
I do metion being a sports junkie. It’s pretty much front and center; including my moniker being “Major League”….obvious isn’t it? Perhaps it is the expectations that make it complicated. After a few dates however there is the expectation of sex by men which definitely factors in “complicated.”
good for you!! I so totally agree with you…..your friend’s advice sounds like it came out of the 1950′s .. I am flabbergasted by it, quite frankly.
I was recently on a train trip with a group. There was one guy who was doing most of the talking….. and his ego was sooo big. There were only a few men in the group.
I can’t remember what started the conversation, but he advised me to “leave my ba__s at the office when I go on a date.” I actually am retired, but am a naturally assertive woman. So, if that means I would have to be less for a man to be more…. I am not interested. Actually when I’m on a first date if they don’t ask any questions about me I cross them off the list.
I’m with you Gail. A date is the beginning of the CONVERSATION. If you don’t have that to begin with what do you draw on for the future??
I know this still baffles me. If you’re not conversing what are you supposed to be doing? I realize that many have mentioned listening which gives you insight into someone’s psyche, but I love good scintillating conversation. A smart funny man are the two top qualities on my wish list. And you’re right if you can’t carry on a conversation with your date where could it possibly go from there?
really, just be yourself. there’s plenty of dates who will appreciate you in natural form. you don’t want to seem desperate with unnatural acts just to spend time on any old 2nd date… don’t waste your time and keep your rhythm. if you date a person who wants a wimp, you’ll marry a wimpaholic whom doesn’t really respect you. iwhether you’re a professional woman or a single mom, acting natural will draw to you someone whom balances you. just let it go otherwise…not worth your time or the heartache or the low self confidence.
really, you want to program for someone you love and like, you enjoy eachother, you are creative and grow together, you’re attracted to eachother, you’re best friends and playmates, and you’re right for eachother right now…. everythings in perfect order. thank you management.
well put. thanks!