As a health and wellness writer and blogger on women’s health issues, I’ve had the pleasure of making the acquaintance of many wonderful women.
Susan Baxter, author of The Estrogen Errors: Why Progesterone Is Better for Women’s Health has been one of those women.
A successful medical and health and wellness writer herself, Susan is an outspoken advocate for women’s health. If you’ve not had the chance to read her book, I would highly recommend that you do.
In one of our recent email conversations Susan made a comment on how much she charged for her writing and editing services. Let’s just say that Susan doesn’t work for minimum wage, shall we?
Also during the course of the conversation she made the wonderful statement,
“If women don’t value themselves and their work, who will?”
Look, this conversation is an old one. We all know that women still make less money than our male counterparts in the workforce and plenty of us are none too happy about it. But, on the other hand, the question we all ought to be asking is why?
Sure, there’s the argument that women are shut out and kept down by misogynistic men, and maybe there is some truth to that. But, is that always the case? Personally, I don’t think so. In fact, I’m of the unholy and politically incorrect opinion that the bigger problem is women themselves.
Yep. I said it out loud.
I think Susan Baxter is right. If we do not value ourselves and put a high dollar on our productivity and work, well then, just who will?
MSNBC morning news anchor, Mika Brzezinski also tackles this question in her recent book, Knowing Your Value: Women, Money and Getting What You’re Worth
Yeah, I know what you’re thinking.
“What does Mike Brzezinski know about not getting what you’re worth? She’s a news anchor for MSNBC! Of course she makes a lot of money!”
And guess what? You would be wrong! I know it’s hard to believe that a woman of her education, stature and employment level would be at the bottom of the financial food chain. But, she was. She also says it was all her fault too, because she accepted it. Hence, her book.
As a woman who has spent the entire first half of her life putting herself on the back burner for the greater good of others, I know exactly how difficult it is to lay your cards on the proverbial table and cash-out for every penny that you’re worth.
But, the truth is, ladies, no one will give you more than you are willing to ask for. Period. Of course, if you’re going to ask for more, you have to be willing to give more.
Education, knowledge, skill, expertise, and yes, even your age, all have value, but only as much value as you place on it.
So, take an inventory, girls, and remember… You have not because you ask not!
So how about having him move, really. Should your sons be left with him if they are living at home. Give him an ultimatum. Go to a doctor and get on meds and stay in therapy or stay away. You deserve to have stability in your life. Put the 
Shirley - what a breath of fresh air. It sounds like you are quite the extraordinary person. I'm going to take your advice and ask myself what would I like to do on this long holiday weekend! Who knows...I just might have some fun. The loneliness is 
You say,” Education, knowledge, skill, expertise, and yes, even your age, all have value, but only as much value as you place on it.”
I agree up to a point. If an employer is considering a 60 year old woman and a 30 year old woman for the same job and the younger women has less experience, the job will probably still go to the younger woman. We do not value our elders in this country.
I really don’t know whether or not we value elders, but I do think you’re right about the job going to the younger woman. For one thing, she is likely to work for less money; second, she is likely to not have as many health problems. Unfortunately, what they often fail to consider, is that she may need more time off because of young children or may leave to have and/or take care of her family.
I had an interview early on after losing my job. Starting pay was quite a bit lower (smaller firm) than I’d been making. I indicated a willingness to start at that pay scale but asked if it could be re-evaluated in a couple of months (since they knew what I had been earning). Needless to say, that didn’t work out, although I never did find out why. I suspect my value was over their budget. ♥
ThurmanLady says
I really don’t know whether or not we value elders,
Dudette, really? Of course we don’t value our elders. It doesn’t take a PhD in physics to figure that out. Just take a look around. And ask some seniors who were subject to the corporate world as they got older. If you aren’t top management, you are OUTTA there. Especially in the private sector!
OP: “Sure, there’s the argument that women are shut out and kept down by misogynistic men, and maybe there is some truth to that. But, is that always the case? Personally, I don’t think so. In fact, I’m of the unholy and politically incorrect opinion that the bigger problem is women themselves.”
Well, I don’t know about BIGGER, but part of the problem, sure. I fought like hell to get my current salary. Negotiated for weeks. Did I end up getting what the boys get? No, I don’t think so. Why not? Well, the economy sux right now, and I really wanted this job.. and ultimately, I settled. Did I get a good salary? You damn betcha. Did I get the salary I deserve? No.
Dudette? Actually, I was thinking outside of the corporate world box. There are places that “elders” – people with knowledge and experience – have value. It may not be in the corporate world (and it doesn’t seem to be in the legal world, either). And, coming from my perspective, I definitely wasn’t thinking of the public sector.
I have to agree with the fact that the economy is really bad. Were there enough jobs to go around, and an atmosphere that doesn’t make it so that a company has to be so very careful of the bottom line, I think the value of older people in the workplace would increase. I truly believe there are many companies who know their value, but just can’t afford it at this time. I’m still hopeful that this country will get their collective heads out of their you-know-whats and cut spending, create a fair tax and get the economy back out of the sewer. Otherwise, many of us will be in major trouble – not necessarily just those of us who can’t find a job. ♥
You are singing my song. i agree whole heartedly. We teach people how to treat us. And when we accept less, we get less. When we expect more, we get more.
Call it out, ladies. And dont settle–walk. And dont whine, moan, bitch and complain and claim victim. Because all you do when you do that, is devalue yourself.
Even if you do NOT whine, moan, bitch and complain and claim victim as you say…Even if you do EVERYTHING right…chances are, if you are a 60 year old woman, you will NOT be valued in the working world.
This is the reality in this country!
Then maybe we need to be willing to think differently about our circumstances?
I don’t have the stats in front of me, but I read recently that single women constitute the lion’s share of small business owners in this economy. It was a huge number. I may have to run and try to find it.
I think the only limitations we have are the ones between our ears. that is not to say there is not prejudice, bias and employers who want the younger person willing to work for less pay. All of that is true.
However, we do have the ability to choose how we want to deal with that fact. Accept it and lay down? Give up and say, “Oh, well, that’s just the way it is?”
I think not.
I will be 60 years old when I finish my graduate work for my PhD. I assure you I will not be hanging it up just because there are people out there who will think I’m too old.
There are FAR TOO MANY opportunities out there. We just have to go get them.
Valued by whom, Debi? That is my point entirely. So, we just let others tell us our value? Therein, my sister, lies a great deal of the problem.
That’s YOUR reality, Debi. Here’s a list of women who have very different business experiences:
Nancy Pelosi – 70
Diane Sawyer – 64
Barbara Walters – 80
Hillary Rodham Clinton – 62
Martha Stewart – 68
Vera Wang – 60
Arianna Huffington 60 And here are some that aren’t celebrity household names, but rock the business world:
Indra Nooyi—Chairman of CEO of PepsiCo
Irene Rosenfeld—Chairman and CEO of kraft Foods
Anne Mulcsahey—Chairman and CEO of Xerox
Susan Arnold—President of Business Units—Proctor & Gamble
Pretty sure all these women know their worth–and pretty sure they make DAMN SURE their boards of directors do too. Without whining, moaning, bitching and complaining.
Dallas Lady…I’ve owned a business for over 2O years so you can cut the sarcasm.
As a writer, I have also interviewed hundreds of woman working in the sales and service industry.
I stand by my words…The older female worker woman in the United States is NOT valued in the workplace. We are not talking about celebrities or Chairman of companies.
We are talking about regular folks who are pounding the pavement looking for work in a country obsessed with youth.
Magnolia…You said in an above comment ,” Valued by whom, Debi? That is my point entirely. So, we just let others tell us our value? Therein, my sister, lies a great deal of the problem.”
Magnolia…You are getting a PhD…you are NOT the average older woman looking for a job. The average older woman already has their value defined for them by the mediocre pay scale and the lack of interest in hiring an older person.
You and Dallas Lady must live in lala land because you have no idea how it is in small towns across America.
No, Debi, I do not live in LaLa land. My story is not a fairy tale and I assure you that I have experienced enough sexual harassment on the job to last me and a few other women a life time.
I’ve been mocked, ridiculed, laughed at and told I would never go anywhere. I’ve been told I was unintelligent, plain stupid and incompetent. All by male co-workers and superiors.
I’ve been groped, mauled and literally jumped on by high-powered bosses. When I told my co-workers what they had done, they were baffled. They had never seen “the boss” behave in such way toward anyone……hmmm…….must have been my own fault.
And finally, I’ve been in two abusive marriages. I won’t go into the details. But, please take my word for it. I KNOW what it’s like to have someone tell me I’m worthless and I’ll never make it.
So, no, I’m not and have never been in LaLa land.
I know exactly what is out there and I’m making a very deliberate choice to transcend.
We have that power. IF we choose to use it.
I am sorry about what you endured in the workplace. Don’t be afraid to share your story with others. You can’t just can’t preach to woman how to change their attitude without connecting with them on a human level.
Now I feel like I know more about Magnolia…Thank-you for sharing!
“The average older woman already has their value defined for them by the mediocre pay scale and the lack of interest in hiring an older person. ”
I think you’re selling older women short. I work in a small southern town and teach in a school with 90%+ students below the poverty line. I know that their value is not defined by their pay scale or their job because we talk about it. They are defined by family, love of God and football, seriously this is the south.
I do believe that if you value yourself that it shows. We all need to stop waiting for permission to value ourselves now. I don’t need society’s permission or approval.
I know that you feel strongly that we are living in a youth obsessed country. Ok, now what? How are we going to change that?
Dallas Lady…I just read your bio. Congratulations for all your accomplishments.
I also believe from reading your bio that you would have very little patience or compassion for a woman who didn’t make it up the corporate ladder like you did.
I know many women who worked just as hard as you and never got any recognition in the workplace.
Many of these women have influenced my life in a very positive way.
What I have little patience for is professional victims who blame others for what did or didn’t happen to them. We all make our own reality. Plenty of people dont want to climb the corporate ladder. That’s fine and wonderful. I love when people are absolutely clear on what they want and just as clear on what they dont want. Its all too often about what they think they are supposed to want without being honest about what their truth capabilities and desires atually are.
There is nothing any more frustating to be asked to mentor and coach others who profess they want professional sucess but quite simply arent willing to do what it takes. And make excuses and blame someone else. “The man.” And here’s reality…….everyone has an exuse for why something didnt happen for them. Women think its their gender. Others their race. I’ve listened to white men tell me that they are discriminated against because they didn’t go to the same alma mater as their boss. Everyone has a story, and everyone claims what is different about them is why it didn’t happen for them.
Do you think men don’t have the same converaitons we have? Oh trust me–they do indeed. Just fill in the blanks for the different reasons they feel they’ve been passed over…..I’ve heard men tell me they were passed over for deserved promotions and raise because of affirmative action, and that the jobs went to women and people of color.
We are all human and we all have human foilibles. And everyone looks at someone elses plate and articulates why that should be on THEIR plate instead. If you have it, its because you are lucky, not because you earned it. If I have it, I worked my butt off and earned every dime.
People are confounding.
The original poster was basically saying “do not sell yourselves short. Know your own worth.” Thats what I was agreeing with in totality. As soon as you start claimining victimhood, you aren’t claiming your worth or your strength or your contributions.
You think older women aren’t valued? What about older men? I know men who dye their hair to look younger in a youth obsessed culture. We all have to do what it takes. I posted about this previously. Update your look. Wear modern clothes. Demonstrate currency. SHow some energy. Past age 21 ..and in a workplace….we are all equals. Why should we be valued any more than another worker–or any less? Yes we have to compete….on every level, we have to compete. We compete with young, old, in between. We compete with men, women and transgendered. We compete with workers in other countries. Competition is buisness reality. Know your value, know your strengths–and use them in a way that differentiates you. That is business reality. No one is kissing our backsides because we have been on earth longer. And if we expect that, then we are naive.
I’ve also posted the reality that while with 9.2% unemployment, millions are out of work. Millions who meet every possible demographic profile. But the numbers driven reality — not people’s personal stories of woe — are that statistically speaking …..those who were hit worse by this economy were young men of color.
Older workers–and women–fared better than others. But we all know — and many of us are — older women who got kicked in the head in this economy. It isn’t because we are older women. Its because this economy SUCKS and millions have been kicked in the head.
This summer I have explored what it means to be an older woman in education. I’ve questioned a number of things in part because of the lack of respect that I think I’m getting. I have to be honest and confess that I was expecting respect just because of longevity. I do my job and I do it well but I am not owed anything because of my age. I know more and do many things easier and better than my younger colleagues. When they want help I help otherwise I don’t bother. I really had to ask myself why I wanted recognition in the work place and I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter to me very much anymore. I wanted it because I thought I was entitled to it. (to be brutally honest.)
When I shared some of these observations with some younger teachers they didn’t consider me older. They did consider several other teachers who are younger than me older. Some of that is because of my attitude. The ‘older teachers’ are considered old because of how they dress, how they talk, and they don’t keep up with trends, the profession and technology.
I work for a younger man and work with younger teachers. They consider me young because I’m enthusiastic, dress nicely, am interested and engaged in life and my profession. It’s an attitude. That’s their observation. I’ve gotten a lot of recognition in my career but that is honestly not my focus right now. However, if I wanted it I would do some things differently than I am now. I would publish, be more active in my professional organization, conduct staff development. I would sell myself differently.
There is a bias against older women for sure but some of that we bring on ourselves. Then we complain about it and act like victims. I’ve seen that too often.
And for the record, older men are experiencing the same thing. If our culture values youth, and I believe it does, we might ask ourselves what is it about youth that is valued. I don’t think it’s just looks. I thinks it’s passion, energy, commitment, being engaged with life and interested in the world.
Here’s one more thing, you get what you give so give what you want. That means giving younger people as much respect as you think you should have. I know that I’ve been guilty of not doing that.
Excellent observation, Watermusic, I couldn’t agree with you more!
Ditto ditto ditto
I think our society is obsessed with youth and I believe that it has very little to do with as you stated their passion, energy, commitment, being engaged with life and interest in the world.
Half my reply above got wiped out and I am just too tired to write it all over again! Sorry about that!
Debi,
I don’t talk about it much because, frankly, I prefer not to give it so much power. I hope you have recognized that no where have I suggested women are not discriminated against, devalued or held back. I believe that is a very real and present reality for many women.
What I’m trying to do is encourage women to be bold and transcend those realities. We do not have to accept what others say to us as true. We do not have to tolerate how others treat us. We do have choices.
I think it does us no good to focus on the negatives of what is before us. It does not help us change or get out of those negatives. It only emboldens those who want to keep us down and instills a sense of hopelessness in us.
As a woman who has experienced more domestic violence against me than you can imagine, I know exactly what I’m talking about. And it is certainly not a sermon.
If you take the time to read my blogs, you will see that I am a very positive, half filled glass kind of person. Though not a psychologist, I have the ability to understand and have empathy for women whose roads have been paved with stones. I believe part of the problem is…these women that I am referring to on not your average reader on sites like this.
They are out there trying to survive.
And I too have a lot of compassion for people. My personal story is a dark one filled with years of abuse beginning at the hand of my father. It continued as I chose man after man to take my father’s place.
It took me many, many years to understand the damage that had been done to my soul and heart and how it led me around like a lost puppy right into bad decision after bad decision.
I’ve recovered from horrendous drug abuse; suicide attempts; abject poverty; clawing my way through college as a single mother.
Trust me, I get it. I REALLY get it. Okay? We’re on the same page. I just choose to ring a different bell.
Just out of curiosity what is the average for women on this site and how do we know?
From reading almost everything that is posted , I am going to say that the average woman who reads this site is 50-65, reads and writes English well enough to express herself on this site and has access to a computer. I also think she is the kind of woman who enjoys reaching out and connecting with other woman in her age group.
Magnolia Miller says
I will be 60 years old when I finish my graduate work for my PhD.
You go girl, that’s FABULOUS.