Unfortunately, the dvd cut off the end of his speech,, but I am so glad that there is a grown up in the white house to handle this.
Looking at all the horrific events that georgie boy either gave us such as Iraq, and the current fiscal crises, or the things he mishandled, Katrina, Afghanistan and the current fiscal crisis we can at least know that it will be handled responsibly with no cover ups.
The sad thing is that Al Qaida would not have had as many followers if we had not fought the Iraqi war and if we had concentrated on capturing Bin Laden when we had him in Afghanistan, instead to sending everyone to Iraq.
But at least we finally have a competent, qualified leader to help us through these troubled times.
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He did promise ‘transparency’ didn’t he………
Yeah, love how he put all of the health care reform talks on CSpan as he promised over and over in his campaign. There’s transparency for you all! Those talks were held behind doors sealed tighter than Fort Knox!
Keep in mind ladies that he can give his promise of transparency when his hands are not tied by the partisan problems or for that matter if the subject relates to our National Security. Some things simply can not be made transparent and I think he assume us to be smart enough to realize that.
Re transparency, I was referring more to the healthcare than national security issues. I have no idea why ‘partisan problems’ (whatever that is) should hamper him from keeping his PROMISE, which he stated many times on the campaign trail, of having the healthcare issues on C-SPAN. I don’t remember that promise being qualified in any way. I was actually enthused by this promise and looked forward to seeing the govt. at work up close and personal.
You know, if the opposition to healthcare was as heartless and foolish as the administration claims, wouldn’t it be to the advantage of the administration to have the entire country see the opposition being heartless and foolish on C-SPAN? Just asking.
Even if whatever is going on behind closed doors is totally above board, not living up to the promise raises doubts re the sincerity of the transparency claims.
Right on, Olga!!
I agree 100% Olga.
I agree 100% Olga.
Olga I agree 100%
There will always be circumstances that prevent a president from acting one way or another. It’s the nature of this highly sensitive job, we understand that… But when he wanted the job, he promised so much and these possible circumstances were not taken into consideration…….in the end he is just another politician, I guess.
we’re talking about health care talks behind closed doors.
and not politics as usual, and no lobbyists, and ….
I agree.
Amen to that, pennylane100.
I believe our president will make the right decisions.
Hey Penny!! Couldn’t agree more. Isn’t it refreshing that we don’t have to listen to that idiot Bush anymore and be embarrassed in front of the whole world. It will be interesting to see what history book say about the 8 years under the Bush admin. If there’s any question about Bush’s stupidity just go to You Tube. It’s shocking how ridiculous he is.
I agree. Now we have a competent president with lots of community organizing experience who thinks people in Austria speak Austrian, who gives dignitaries gifts from the White house souvenir shop, who talks to 5th graders with a teleprompter, who pronounces corpsman like corpseman, who thinks there are 57 or rather 58 states in the US,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws&feature=related
and who gives the Queen of England an iPod. See her gifts to the Obama family below:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODA4ZDQ0ODNiMGJkZTY2OWYyY2YzMmE2NTdhZThmMDE=
Yeah Sunflower, it sure is nice not to be embarrassed anymore!
You said:
‘The sad thing is that Al Qaida would not have had as many followers if we had not fought the Iraqi war and if we had concentrated on capturing Bin Laden when we had him in Afghanistan, instead to sending everyone to Iraq’
May I ask how you arrived at this conclusion? i.e. What facts/evidence you base this on?
Not defending anyone here, I just like to know how people arrive at such conclusions.
Nout sure if thes sites will come up as links, but the articles show that a lot of people, including influential think tanks have also reached this conclusion.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9914868
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3756650.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1557811/Bush-told-Iraq-war-has-helped-al-Qaeda.html
http://www.wastedirony.com/
Thanks. I recently read on another post on VN how it improves the adult brain to expose oneself to views other than your own. Your writings here show you to be an ardent opponent of anything Bush, so I thought your sources would help my grey matter. lol
The stories were interesting and thought provoking. Still, my analytic brain wishes all stories of any kind included more hard facts and less opinion. But then, that’s just me.
I totally agree with pennylane’s post. Also, doesn’t it just make common sense that when you invade a country-not in self-defense-and women and children become collateral damage from your offensive, that you would create hatred. We already knew that there was a world wide terrorist faction that wants to take us out. Bush poured gasoline on the fire. Now we are stuck in the middle of this Iraq-Afghanistan mess-at least the terrorists who DID actually attack on 9/11 are our target. One can read all the hard facts they want-but sometimes we need to use common sense.
Totally agree!
I am not sure there was an actual fiscal crisis untill that became the hot topic for the media and they scared us into one.
well luckily you must not be one of the 42 million uninsured and and the 10 per cent that are unemployed and it maybe you do not know anyone who lost their home because of predatory lending practices but there are hundreds of thousands of them out there and they believe the crisis is real.
How did you feel about the fact that the big banks and financial institutions that caused this crisis got billions of dollars of our tax dollars in low interest loans in order to clean up their mess and prevent the collapse of many of the world’s economies. The real bonus is that they then used this money to lobby congress against banking reform. Now that is corruption you can believe in.
pennylane, I also am not one who went out and bought a house that was way more expensive than I should ever have been able to afford. People do have to take some responsibility for foolish decisions.
Olga, I understand your position. If you only believe the “facts” that verify your position you can justify anything. I voted for Obama, I hope he does well and makes the right decisions for our country. However, I think the hatred of the left for Bush is just as crazy as the hatred of the right for Obama. I think (no facts here) that both men are good men, I also think good men can make errors in judgement. Only time will tell if President Obama’s vision for America is the best one.
Talk about selective empathy! DLucke, you wrote:
” People do have to take some responsibility for foolish decisions.”
”…I also think good men can make errors in judgement.”
My fault, because I should have stopped reading after you accused the media boogeypeople of having scared us into what is the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
You might want to revise your scapegoat list.
P.S. I’m thrilled that you remain unscathed by the economic disaster and, based on your solid security footing, I assume you can afford travel to far off lands; rumor has it there’s a guy in Oz handing out hearts.
Well said Yakkity, I never cease to be amazed at as someone one phrased “Man’s in humanity to man”
I remember my cleaning lady in the bay area was caught up in one of those type of mortgages and her payments were going to double and she was totally distraught. I was leaving the area and did not know how it ended, but I did refer her to a friend who is a mortgage broker and had spanish speaking employees who would help her. I told her to make sure she mentioned she was a friend of mine as I know the broker is a left of me liberal who would do his best for her.
But to brush that aside as someone making foolish decisions when she probably did not understand the full consequences of what she was signing. Her only mistake was thinking that if you work hard, and trust me, she did work hard, she could achieve the dream of home ownership.
Regardless of how wise her actions were, how could you not empathize with people like her. It boggles the mind.
Hey pennylane, I’m a licensed Realtor in California and sold real estate in the San Francisco bay area until a couple of years ago-when I could see that things were not going well.
One day a mortgage broker called me with a client who had a couple of bankruptcies in her past, not enough income to qualify and wanted me to show her property. Why would I do this when there isn’t a chance in hell that she will get the loan? The broker “guaranteed” me that she could get her a loan for a home that was really too expensive for her. I walked away and warned the client to be very careful-it was not above board.
I don’t know what happened in that instance, but someone should have been overseeing this. I’m so happy I got out when I did. The amount of paperwork handed over to a client to sign regarding the loan is overwhelming with all the fine print. California is a very litigious state and everyone tries to cover their asses with more and more paperwork. If you don’t speak English very well and actually trust people-you could be in big trouble.
I miss the big paychecks, but that’s about it. A lot of people were taken advantage of during this time. What a shame.
I applaud you taking the personal responsibility to warn the client.
I don’t know much about real estate and mortgages, thus my question. Is there some board or organization to which you could have reported that mortgage broker so they could at least have been investigated?
Yes, you can report an ethics violation and I talked to my superiors about it-but without a written pre-approval letter it wouldn’t be taken seriously. We had only had verbal communication.
That sucks!
I think equating someone’s belief in personal responsibility to their being inhumane is a bit on the emotional overkill side, don’t you think? And nothing in DLucke’s comment says that she wouldn’t be empathetic with your cleaning lady’s particular situation.
Speaking as a Hispanic immingrant, I will say that your cleaning lady’s personal responsibility was to admit lack of understanding and finding someone to help her understand.
Although I was a child when my family came to the US, I was old enough to understand what was going on. And this was at a time (early ’60′s) when there wasn’t much Spanish being spoken in the US. My parents never entered in any financial situation without someone (usually a relative or trusted friend) to explain things to them. My parents were not any type of privileged or highly educated folks. My dad was an auto mechanic and my mom a houswife. But, they had enough common sense to know to ask if they didn’t understand.
My parents were very proud and would have been insulted to be thought of as victims. And they DEFINITELY would not have wanted the government to come in and rescue them.
My neighbor’s cleaning lady bought a house for 250,000 on just her salary. Now she’s crying that she can’t afford it. My friend has a (single) cleaning lady who bought a home for 100,000 and doesn’t have that problem. I’m sure she also wanted the bigger, nicer house, but she bought what she could afford.
Hey, let me have the number for that liberal who can help the greedy borrower in example #1.
I do not feel sorry for people who are irresponsible and greedy. I feel sorry for people who have bad things happen to them through no fault of their own.
I must say Yak, that your comments do live up to your avatar. lol.
Never said it isn’t a tragedy that they lost their houses (and btw, my step son lost his), just saying it can’t all be blamed on the mortgage industry, maybe it is a good thing in a way that people learned you have to live on what you make. I live with the constant knowledge that my job could go away in a flash. So don’t lecture me. And yes, I do think some of the financial debacle can be laid at the feet of the media, I think some of the reasons we went into Iraq, can also be laid at their feet. They pump up whatever is their hot button of the moment. If you will notice, from looking at national news, you wouldn’t even know we are still in Iraq. They seem to ignore that the jobless rate keeps getting worse, not better. Do you really think no one is losing their homes anymore? Listening to the talking heads, you would think we are on our way to a quick and painless recovery. Some of the people (not all) who lost their homes made an error in judgement and they paid the price, just like the Republican Party has paid a price in loss of power for the errors of the previous administration. That is what happens when you make a mistake, you have to live with the consequences. I know I have been there. You can keep your empathy and see how much good it does for people. I prefer to make an effort to give as much as I possibly can to local food banks, Salvation Army, homeless shelters, etc. they appreciate it way more than my “empathy”
PS: Do you remember the 70′s? If so, be careful about what you call the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Also we might have been headed for a technical depression, but I am wondering how much you know about the Great Depression if you think we were really anywhere close to that.
You are absolutely right! You mentioned the 70′s, I was living in the South Bay Area in the early 80′s and was in real estate sales. Interest rates were running between 21 & 24 per cent. People whom were fiscally responsible were losing their jobs and their homes. Now, people who claim they were tricked or didn’t understand the contract, expect to be bailed out. This is wrong on so many different levels, I can’t even begin. Personal responsibility is the key to the success of the USA.
I hear that guy in Oz has a variety of inventory……mail order catalogues available for all.
I’m not sure if what I read on those links was common sense or conjecture. But, thought provoking nonetheless.
And again, I’m not defending anyone or any point of view here. I just have a problem when complex problems are simplified into one person or one group’s fault. Politicians are especially good at using this tactic to rouse emotions and steer away from facts.
I get your point, Olga, but I was not referring to things that we read in the links. I was just trying to make a point that maybe common sense should prevail.
I, also don’t complex problems being simplified into a small box. But the truth is- Presidents are, historically- actually judged by what happens during their administration, not by what the pundits can spin after they are out of office.
Bush DID invade Iraq-innocent people DIED and he holds the responsibility; just as President Obama holds the responsibility for the additional troops he’s sent into Afghanistan. Both of these men will take this to their graves. The office comes with an enormous set of problems and issues. Both men wanted the job. To bring this back to pennylane’s original post-I am also so glad that there’s an adult in the White House. If we’d had an adult in charge for the last eight years, we wouldn’t be in such a mess.
First Olga, the links I gave were a combination of opinion and facts, some of the from Janes Information, npr, and the BBC and the 9/11 commission, a diverse group, with no special agenda. To suggest that any of these organizations (with the possible exception of the 9/11 commission) lack common sense or are prone to conjecture is just not feasible.
The iraq war was not the result of complex problems, it was the result of a bunch of thieves who hijacked this country and lied us into a war that had no purpose other than to enrich these crooks.
There never were weapons of mass destruction, aimed at our shores. I knew that at the time, the inspectors on the ground in iraq knew that, all of europe knew that, including blair, and bush certainly knew that.
It may be hard to come to terms with facts that you do no like,but you cannot deny their existence. History is not on your side.
I am not on any ‘side’, other than holding government accountable for their actions, regardless of which party is in power. I don’t see the world in terms of one group against another.
My opinion of conjecture, was just that, my opinion, based on how often I asked myself ‘wonder how/why they came to that conclusion’. It was not any type of indictment of the particular news sites.
As for the ‘facts’ you speak of, I am not denying any of those. Facts are facts, not there for me to like or dislike. The ‘fact’ also exists, that, despite all the controversy surrounding Iraq before the war, the Senate voted to approve the Joint Resolution with the support of large bipartisan majorities on October 11, 2002 providing the Bush administration with a legal basis for the US invasion under US law. So, doesn’t the Senate bear responsibility as well? (and yes, I know Obama voted against it, and kudos to him for that) Thus my point that the issue is complicated.
My point was not to get off on the Iraq war, but to point out that rarely is one person or one entitity entirely responsible for an action of government. Yes, blaming one particular person serves to focus anger. I’m not saying to forget it. However, constantly bringing it up only serves to divert attention from discussions of current issues.
P.S. Sorry, forgot to say that my source for the information on the Senate decision was Wikipedia.
well that source is only as good as the person who wrote and or edited it. Actually I love wikipedia and use it often.
I’m aware of that, so I just use it for general knowledge facts. Nothing controversial. I mean, it is a matter of public record what the Senate voted for.
But my point, again, was to show that it’s more complicated than the fault of one person. Also, concentrating on blame, etc., only serves to divert discussion from the actual issues at hand.
Common Sense says, when there is a dictator, torturing his own people, someone has to do something. When Hitler was killing the Jewish people, we could have stayed out of it, but “Thank God, we didn’t” . When good men do nothing, evil thrives. Sadam Hussin, was about as evil a man, as the world has ever seen, remember the Kurdish people and chemical weapons attack on them.
well. first of all, we did NOT invade iraq because saddam was a bad man, we even sold him much of his weaponry while he was fighting our enemies in Iran and that certainly came back to bite us in the butt.
Secondly, if we follow follow your logic to its inevitable conclusion, we will have to invade half of Africa, plus all the other little countries where dictators are busy offing people who disagree with their leaders, i.e. Iran. That alone should warrant at least a 10 per cent tax increase and please, as a patriot, volunteer your children to be part of the slaughter that goes with these wars.
Of course, in that you think it OK that we broke the Geneva convention rules in launching a pre-emptive strike against a country that was not a threat to to us, please tell me how we are going to pay for this war which as of now has cost over a trillion dollars. Also, perhaps you could also explain to the families of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead that we did it for their own good.
It ceases to amaze me how niave some women can be. I voted for Bush twice and I do think he was a goofball but the options in my opinion were worse. I did not vote for Obama because I have been to and have friends in Socialist countries and don’t like my freedoms taken away to the degree theirs are. In Sweden they have to even pay a “funeral tax” to ensure they can be buried. Any, Obama is just as niave as some women. I am a very compassionate, empathetic women. I have a son with a serious mental illness but I think people should have personal responsibility. I pay my mortgage, car payments and debit I have racked up first before I eat, buy clothing or anything else. I feel that I took on this debt and it is mine. I work hard and get health insurance through my employer. I resent the fact that all my life I have been taught personal responsibility and now the government wants to tell me what to do and how I spend my money, how I will get health care, etc. What happened to freedom of choice? What happened to transparency in government? This administration is a bunch of Chicago-style politicians where greed and corruption are the norm. I cannot believe that supposedly intellegent women would buy into what is going on. Ladies, please do not be blinded by a bunch of rhetoric that means nothing and be careful as to what you are asking for because you just might get it.
Lamcdo, why do you think it’s necessary or helpful to make disparaging statements about other women on this sight? I could turn around and take at least 3 of the statements you’ve made on this site and rip them apart. What would that add to the conversation?
If you think some of lamcdo’s comments were erroneous, why not just disagree with her in what you consider a mature tone, rather than lecturing her? She is apparently someone who has a lot on her plate and chooses to not make herself a victim of the situation. She takes personal responsibility and doesn’t look to the gov’t to bail her out.
BTW, although lamcdo could probably have expressed herself a little less accusatory, I don’t think she was particularly disparaging. At least no more so than Penny’s ‘inhumanity’ remark or Yakity’s ‘smart’ comments to DLucke. Was it really her wording that bothered you, or did her actual points push a button within you? Just asking………
Neither you nor lamcdo have the capability to “push my button”.
Never wanted to. My aim is to have rational discussions, not melodramatic rants intended to put others on the defensive. Not very productive. (I am not accusing you of this, BTW). I’ve found our discussions pretty civilized.
.
Oh, I forgot to address your first paragraph. It’s just become so boring to continually have to address all these little Rush-the drug addict-Limbaughisms.
So, don’t address them. But don’t resort to personally attacking someone (e.g.’drug addict’) just because you disagree with them. Free country, free speech (so far). The personal attacks serve no purpose other than to avoid addressing particular issues–a major forte of politicians.
Hey Olga,
I don’t need to be lectured by you on what constitutes a discussion and I’m pretty sure you know that.
I don’t say he’s a drug addict because I disagree with him- he IS or at least WAS that. (Maybe I’m wrong-but isn’t it: once an addict, always an addict?) But…I do disagree with him most of the time-you’re right.
Free country, free speech. Couldn’t resist
-LOL
Perfect!
Didn’t intend to lecture, that’s why I pulled and edited the post. You were quick on the draw there. lol
I said I thought she could have expressed it better, but I was more interested in the fact that you called her out, but not Penny or Yakity. So, I guess I should have asked why you thought her comments were disparaging and theirs weren’t.
Re Rush, I guess then I should have asked, why you felt the need to include that particular fact about him. I’m sure you know that that particular term has a derrogatory connotation to it. BTW, I personally don’t listen to the man and don’t keep up with his personal life. Lamcdo may not either.
I couldn’t tell that you pulled and edited the post
-not sure how to do that?? Aha, just saw the edited post!
I was struck by the generality of lamco’s comments- she’s “amazed by how some women can be naive… She can’t believe that supposedly intelligent women would buy into what’s going on….Ladies, please do not be blinded by a bunch of rhetoric. “
Naive…Supposedly intelligent women?? That’s offensive on so many levels to so many women.
With respect to Rush, he’s quoted so often by people who seem to have a lack of empathy for others that have problems, but hold him in high esteem-it simply seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Not sure I understand the Rush paragraph. I may have missed it, but I don’t think lamcdo said anything about Rush.
Also, one can be empathetic, but still believe that the other person needs to take personal responsibility. To you, does empathy mean that one has to rescue other people from the consequences of their actions?
actual I believe a court of law convicted him of illegally using prescription drugs, a more fitting description of a drug addict may be out there, but this one is hard to beat.
My point was not whether or not he was a drug addict, but WHY she felt it necessary to put that in her post. We were not talking about drug addicts. It seemed that the only intention was a personal smear. Totally gratuitous and unneccesary.
It was probably her total disdain for any thinking women, right or left that pissed most of us off.
I totally disagreed with all of her points, but that was not (pardon the pun) my point. You do not start off a post saying how naive women can be, and you do not end by stating that if you happen to believe in this administration, you lack intelligence.
Let us leave out the smear about how corrupt this administration is, i.e. CHicago politicians, after all she may be from one of the other forty nine states where all politicans are as pure as the driven snow.
You may not consider any of these statements erroneous but they certainly do not compare to what I thought was a line from a Robert Frost Poem, “Man’s inhumanity to Man.”
Let me start by quoting Eleanor Roosevelt:
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
It may have been Robert Frost you quoted, but your use of it sounded as if you were calling lamdco inhumane just because she was advocating personal responsibility. So, inhumane, naive/lack of intelligence….I don’t see the difference. WHY don’t your statements compare? Just because there was poetry involved? What about Yak’s sarcasm?
We usually don’t like in others what we don’t like in ourselves……….
As for smearing the administration part……….not even going to go there…………..
well your response was all over the board and I must admit unlike your usual precise well researched replies. Not that I often agree with them.
First, yest I was inferring that lamdco’s lack of empathy did seem somewhat inhumane. but your other comparisons were just plain wrong.
Inhumane: lacking pity or kindness.
Naive: having or showing lack of experience
Lack of intelligence: Lacking the capacity to reason, plan or solve problems.
Not sure what these three have in common, but I do not for one moment think Lamdco lacks intelligence and I cannot speak to her naivety as I do not know her well enough.
I did not realize that you considered Yakkity’s wit to be sarcastic, I was amused and somewhat envious that the way she has with words.
Sorry, my response to you got labled as my response to myself. See the Olga to Olga response. lol
Thank-you for your appreciation of my usual posts. And I appreciate your passion, not that I often agree, either. lol
Sorry if I didn’t get my point across. Sometimes I get in my head too much and it doesn’t come out right. lol. And it didn’t help that my pragraph breaks didn’t come through. Let me try one more time.
How is your inferring that lamdco was somewhat inhumane different from her inferring, as you say, that VNers were naive or lacked intelligence? You say that you don’t know her so you can’t speak to her intelligence, etc., yet you spoke to her inhumanity. Plus, you assumed that advocating personal responsibility indicated a lack of empathy. That’s how I saw it, anyway. Whether the two of you were right or not is beside the point. Neither of you know the others on VN, as you say.
And my reason for including the Eleanor Roosevelt quote was that it is within our power to be offended or not. Personally, I don’t belive that being offended serves any purpose whatsoever.
Hope that was clearer. lol. I do so enjoy our exchanges. And I’m not being sarcastic.
thank you for that response. I read it with my mouth open, but have a really bad cold and knew that someone else would say it for me, and probably better.
Jeanniep, I am sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. I do have a lot of passion on the subject. I have several nephews in the military and right now they say everyone is complaining because they have their hands tied. They cannot do their job in the manner it needs to be done. The military was supposed to be used as a last resort when all the power and might of the military is needed. We cannot tie their hands. That is not what they were trained to do. Then when we treat prisoners of war (and we are at war) as common criminals, this really lowers morale. They are putting their lives on the line everyday and they want to do what they are trained to do and get their job done. Again, I am sorry if I offended you but I do stand by what I said.
“it ceases to amaze me how naive women can be?” “I voted for bush twice”
Were you really giving us a great example of an oxymoron because it was a really great one, along with one little typo.
I am not sure this is the best platform to be calling women naive and to open to being blinded by rhetoric. Did you realize you are posting on a site for women that are proud of the fact that they can think for themselves, even with diverse opinions.
So you visited a social country and you know how bad it can be, in your opinion. Well at least most of the social countries in Europe had the good sense to stay away from a war that has nearly bankrupted us and as for the loss of choice, that you sorely miss, most of it went away with the busco patriot act, and if we had elected another republican, the supreme court would have taken the rest.
Yes, they rely on the US to fight the wars………..
Maybe this timeline will help Olga. Oh, and you might ask the blame Bush crowd to take a look too!
http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0212088/tertime.htm
Here’s another pre-Bush timeline…. from PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html
Bravo Penny and I am in full agreement! He’s doing a great job with the mess he was handed!
Exactly!!
k, just curious…..what the heck is going on with your avatar?
just changin it up
My intent in asking the following question is not to cause any controversy, but just to understand your position. On what facts and results do you base the opinion that he is ‘doing a good job’? I’m not disagreeing with your opinion, just wondering how you got there.
Sandi, please tell me what has he done to fix this mess? We have been attacked on our soil 2 times – Ft Hood and the plane over Detroit. We have millions unemployed, our economy is in the toilet and we are trillions of dollars in debt. He has had a year to put all his so called ideas in place and nothing has worked. Just, please, tell me what he has done. I am sincerely curious.
I am curious as well. Also, what exactly is the time frame in how long one is allowed to blame the previous administration for all of the problems that we have right now? Again, just curious.
as long as it takes to clean up all the manure they left behind.
Clean up or replace with new different but still stinky manure? You know what they say about opinions.
which opinionss are you referring to.
I am curious as well. Also, what exactly is the time frame in how long one is allowed to blame the previous administration for all of the problems that we have right now? Again, just curious.
The Bush crew is still blaming Clinton. I think Obama and crew need to acknowledge that they were left a mess, and then get to work trying to straighten it out. And that can’t be done by trying to appease people who have said that they intend to say no to everything.
Sorry, Sandi, hope you don’t mind if I step in here with just one thing:
President Obama’s administration prevented a depression.
How do we know that? just curious….. It’s like winning the Nobel peace Prize for the promise he represents in the world (which is true, but not a deed YET)……
Do you think they’ll have to take the Nobel Peace Prize away if it doesn’t happen?
Doubt it!…still I was just making a point. We cannot always be sure about things that were prevented, things that didn’t happen and for what reason……it’s dificult to say for sure. That is why I find I don’t trust people who take credit for that……
It’s more speculation. There is no way that a “depression” was prevented any more than OB deserves the NPP.
Agree with you…we cannot prove what “would have happened if…”, so the whole excercise is worthless. Taking credit for these things is dishonest, in my view. And before anyone asks, I am an independent: I try to learn the facts and come up with my own opinion. I don’t subscribe to any political party ideology: sometimes the Reps make sense, others the Dems make sense.
So far there hasn’t been a depression, but as to whether anyone can take credit for that, I’m not sure……….
You know I have to respond to this one more extensively. lol. But in a hurry right now…….will respond at a later time.
Same here, Olga, I believe that the stimulus package averted a much worse situation-my belief.
So distracted-a friend of mine lost her 24 year old daughter this past weekend. Lots of family gathering and trying to make food. What a tragedy.
So sorry to hear about your friend. Any death is painful, but when the person is so young, it’s, well, as you said, tragic…….all that potential wasted. Take care.
thank you!
Be fair. It took 16 yrs to get in this mess. Clinton and Bush both did everything they could think of to destroy the economy. And there were 2 terrorist attacks in Bush’s first year in office. One of them killed 3000 people. There were also 2 during Clinton’s administration.
are you talking about attacks on American soil. I know there were two attacks on the world trade center. The one on clinton’s watch was caught, the perpetrators were tried and sentenced to long prison terms. The second would would have been the Oklahoma bombing by white supremacists, the lead of that attack has since been put to death.
I recall the first attack on American soil during the bush watch was 9/11 and because a group of al qaida terrorist led by bin laden, operating our of Afghanistan struck and destroyed the world trade center and to retaliate, we invaded Iraq. I also do not recall the second attack, but hopefully we had more success bring these people to justice. I do know that there was an attempt to blow up an airline, but I do not believe that was on American soil.
Not really sure but it seems like until you have rectified all the problems created by the previous administration- in this case-a long time.
Well, they don’t seem to be rectifing many problems. Did you see the job loss numbers last week? Remember Obama saying that if we get the stimulus package approved unemployment won’t go over 8%? Have you checked the unemployment numbers lately? Now I hear that another stimulus package is in the works. Prevented a depression? Tell that to everyone that has lost their home or has been out of work for months and months. And , oh, by the way, it is really nice that the President has FINALLY realized that there is actually a war on terror. What did they call it before? Oh, yeah, man made disasters! I do agree with Duh, though, both the Republicans and Dems are in bed together! They are truly destroying this country and everyone better pay some attention to the elections in November. We need a good housecleaning in Washington!
and now for the latest news on the stimulus and jobs. Results don’t say what you want? Just change them:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34830451/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/
Frankly, more than anything, I am saddened…………..because these folks just apparently think we are all stupid.
Can’t reply to this now. My friend unexpectedly lost her 24 year old daughter this past weekend and my thoughts are elsewhere.
please accept our heartfelt condolences, from all on the board.
Jeanniep, in any corporation as well as the Federal Government, when you take on a job that was messed up by a previous regime or administration, you become responsible. Also, you can and should blame the Bush administration but let’s remember that all of the Democratic Senators voted for everything that went on. That is why we have a balance of powers. Obama knew what he was getting into when he ran or he should have and he made a lot of promises he has not kept. He led us to believe that he had all the answers but apparently he doesn’t or we would not having climbing job losses, a huge deficit that is getting bigger, and an economy that doesn’t appear to me to be getting better. I am still waiting for someone to tell me what this administration has done that has had any effect but to push us further into debt and to raise unemployment higher.
well of course the pro war democrats have to take some responsibility for the war. They took the word of a lying, former drug addict, former and possible present drunk, draft dodging awol psychopath. That is their cross to bear.
Regarding any improvements under the Obama watch. The job losses for December 2008 were approximately 800,000. The job losses for December 2009 were approx 80,000. A remarkable difference. The dow in december 2008, around 8500, the dow in 2009, around 1050.
C’mon girls. Let’s not pick on the president. Afterall, he is very busy trying to figure out how to give amnesty to 12 million illegals, in time for Acorn to register them for the 2012 election.
Give the guy a break will ya!
Aren’t they all in bed together, the Republicans and the Democrats? It seems that “We the people” don’t matter any more.
I agree Duh! I think we need to clean house in Washington as mentioned above. I do not trust either Democrats or Republicans in office now. I believe they are looking out for their own self interests and love the power. I do not think Obama is to blame for everything. I think it started with Clinton and Bush just perpetuated it. We practically begged people to buy houses they could afford so everyone could have a home. The President doesn’t hold all the power. Remember the Iraq war was voted on by the houses also. A lot of it is the machine behind the man. I just never liked the Chicago machine of corruption and greed and I see it now in the White House. I do not want Obama to fail. This is my country and I love it and I want us all to prosper. But I do not want Socialism either where we are told by the government how to spend our money, what I will make for a living, etc. I do not want the government to take care of me. I can take care of myself. I believe there are some things the government needs to do but they are like a spider creeping into every aspect of our lives. I don’t want that. That is not the America I grew up in but it has changed gradually over the last several years.