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Does the mess in the Gulf bring home to you more vividly the need to take better care of our environment and how will you respond?
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I used Noxzema from the time I was old enough to wash my own face, all through school and into adulthood. Then I decided it wasn't 'sophisticated' enough and went with higher priced, higher end products. About 5 years ago, I went back to I used Noxzema from the time I was old enough to wash my own face, all through school and into adulthood. Then I decided it wasn't 'sophisticated' enough and went with higher priced, higher end products. About 5 years ago, I went back to my old faithMost of the above posts are by women, and many of you seem insecure about your sexuality at your age. Please don't be! While it's true that many of us guys prefer younger women, there are some (like me) that find women over 50 much sexier.
How funny....i only very recently (within last week) read the coconut oil articles on the web. (100 uses, 80 uses etc.) so i bouht some and ordered some from amazon. (Im a stockpiler.)
Have started trying some of the uses. I tried using it a
If your going to be financially secure enough to venture out and see whats available in the B & B field...take your time and check it out. If you have to jump into a job..just to have one..you will not be happy. Hope you get the time to find wh
Yes, I’m helping start an organization that will focus on the wildlife effected by the oil spill. I am reducing my use of petroleum products by buying local food as often as possible, reducing the amount of disposable products I have bought the last of cleaning supplies and am going back to vinegar and baking soda and natural products that I have in my home.I use. I took a test of my carbon foot print and was horrified! I am looking for little ways to make changes.
Hi watermusic: How do you test your carbon footprint?
you can google for any carbon footprint test. Here’s a link to one.
http://www.earthday.net/footprint/flash.html
Great! Some really good ideas — I like the vinegar and bakiing soda which I also have begun to use in place of store bought cleaning suplies.
You are way cool and I thank you.
One change at a time.
What?! You can’t walk and chew gum at the same time?
apparently not.
And this seems to me to be a rather rude response to someone who at least bothered to answer your post…one change at a time is better than none, or doing things that cause further problems…
Forgive me — I didn’t mean to be rude. It was more a reiteration of the President’s comments about being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. I guess I should be more careful! My mouth runs away with me.
Thanks.I am not of a fan of the president (but that is awhole ‘nother post I guess) and will never be in te Michelle fan club eitherr…I don’t care for their contrived rhetoric etc…rarely follow anything he says so that comment obviously went right past me….
I think this president is definately part of our problem…As long as we need oil for these Horrific Wars, we are in trouble. The planet is crying “Please stop killing me”. Maybe the planet is saying “there is HOPE if you all will clean with baking soda..”
You are too kind but someone is always putting you down and I just cant stand it. You are so awesome…
Thank you, Suzen!
And you are right — any change that moves us toward a healthier environment is better than none.
The actuality is that we have lived with deeply ingrained habits all our lives.
Learning to make one change and sticking with it until it is part of your life makes a huge difference and requires foresight, an open mind, and discipline.
Learning to live without paper towels has been a huge long process for me.
So has re organizing all my electrical outlets and purchasing new power bars and arranging everything so I can easily unplug several bars in both my home and office. It’s very easy to say “screw it” and run out when I’m in a hurry.
Small changes, one a time, over a long time make a huge difference.
Personally I feel that Grandma Guitar has saidit all and very well. You go girl. I am on your side. When I read what you wrote about the mess in the Gulf I was so impressed that I have it printed and am putting it everywhere. It is a very negative thing that has happened and people who wany to put sunshine al over it are not at all in this reality. I dont see one positive thing about this mess but more power to you who pretend. Whatever floats your boat. It ios nice that IIIII is sooo good but most people are not..Keep up the awesome writing, you hit the nail as far I most of us are concerned. I think people who brag about what they do and want you to give them credit are worrisome, dont you?
if you have to be talking about me and my response to Grandma Guiter, here I am can answer some of your concerns.
writing a list of the things are do to create a healthier chemical free environment for myself and my household, is only a list because many people are asking, What can I do? What can I do? So I wrote my list of what I do.
So often we use a wide brush to paint an entire population with words like “they”, “most people”, “the government” are pretty broad strokes to smear entire societies as being irresponsible. Perhaps the majority are.
but there are messages of hope everywhere that in fact there are also entire societies of people who do practice energy efficiencies.
Everyone has to find their own personal response to this disaster. I think I have found mine but it took many days these week of information gathering, talking with others to find it.
There is no positive spin on this environmental disaster. NONE. But raging, and pointing fingers, and blaming and putting others down sure as hell does not work.
Everyone single one of us has to take responsibility to decrease our oil consumption and environmental footprint.
Please share your VN profile with us. You have none.
You are so right! We all share responsibility for this and we all have to make changes that are significant if we care anything about our environment and what we will be leaving for our children and grandchildren to cope with.
I so agree…thanks.
you talk alot but I cant see anything positive in what you have to say Sorry but I really think you are the one pointing fingers and blaming people for what they think…Please quit putting down what others say..
Not quite the same list but CNN health program last week had suggestions of what to do in our homes to reduce toxins. One was to have plants – as much as 90% of household toxins could be removed with indoor plants – now I knew it was good to have some plants but no idea they had that much impact on indoor pollution.
I’ve been trying to be green and reduce toxins as well due to having had animals with cancer. I eliminated as many household cleaners as possible and went with vinegar and baking soda as others have suggested. I don’t use any chemicals for pest control or for weeds. Trying as many natural things as possible.
I’ve done the lightbulb thing, stopped plastic a long time ago, try to recycle as much as I can and have a large supply of microfiber cloths. Haven’t stopped using all paper towel. I would be willing to sacrifice a lot for our country to cut our dependence on oil. But it’s the military that is the largest consumer of oil. I think our Military uses more oil then many other countries combined!
Hi Lilly: Yes I have known about indoor plants for a long time. I keep forgetting. Thanks for the reminder on this. I’m not a plant person, have a hard time keeping them alive. I even read recently about specific plants being better than others. I think Boston Fern was one of them. I will re think this and re google it.
We have a lot of “spider” plants….they are pretty hard to kill….for a long time I grew cactus so I wouldn’t have to water so much, but they probably don’t detox like ferns etc. do……I forgot about the benefit of indoor plants as well….we probably have about 25 potted plants hanging and sitting throughout the house and on a sunporch…..
oh yes. I do remember now that spider plants are good too. I kept cactus plants on my balcony for years. the east sun is so strong it’s incredibly hot out there until after about 2 pm in the day.
I will buy some boston ferns and spider plants. thanks.
And the cool thing is you can take the “baby” spiders and start new plants for other people so easily….that’s how we ended up with so many!!
Thank you, Suzen for your comments — it’s good to know others share my deep concern about this horrible mess!
I don’t see anyone here pretending…..
I haven’t learned to live without paper towels, but do buy the ones that are supposedly “green” — I will have to look into that. And I do need to be much more attentive to turning off all the electrical stuff in my office at night. Thanks for your comments.
Now this is awesome. Thanks for sharing…
Not rude, Lets have a sence of humor gezzzz.
I get you and I know you are not a rude person I still cant believe how people can jump to conclusions about benign sayings.
It is easy to misinterpret what people say when on the internet talking in a box……I think everyone needs to choose words carefully……including you…the comment made to me came across as rude, because I had no idea of the context she was saying it in…..I am not clued in on Presidential commentary and “jokes”….I don’t follow much of anything the President has to say…..if something comes across as rude, I’m going to say something about it and give the person a chance to clarify, she subsequently explained and clarified where she was coming from….appropriate in my book….these are just honest emotions, feelings, opinions etc. expressed here……that is the purpose of this forum. Nor do I feel you should be policing the posts and reprimanding people….not your job…it is a free country after all….probably an issue that should be dealt with in another post.
This is something that happens all the time – people police the posts. And you are very correct – communicating with posts is very easy to be taken differently by the reader depending on how they feel at the time they read the post. I’ve been the brunt of this before – but I’ll never give up. The policing posts and reprimanding people should be a topic for another post – I agree with you on this for sure. Maybe we can get that going.
Like “way cool”??
sorry I guess you are too old for such things and whatever….
I prefer to think of it as mature…there is a difference…
and it is a way cool difference
Ageism – even on VN!
Hahaha….right….
But hopefully limited to one person’s opinion…probably not the best site to practice it on….
Where’s your sense of humor,, geeeez
Wow, it amazes me how one topic can cause confusion among the writers. But to bad mouth the President. I wonder if he and Michelle were not Afro Americans or democrats would you all have nicer things to say about him. He did not cause this spill so why lay blame on him. If some of you had a spouse and you were the ones in the white house someone would have the same things to say about you all. You ocan not please all of the people all of the time and you can only please some of the people perhaps sometime. It is those of them that are doing nothing that have time to critize another. Americans should one day learn to get along and have for too many years kept this divide going from generation to generation. Now I don’t want to get into any heated debates with anyone, and I suggest to those of you who are known on VN for this kind of behavior to not attempt to attack me because you may not like my honest replys to you. Now this is suppose to be a outlet to where we can express our concerns and I am concerned about some of the people who put post on this site. You all spread hate, you rub sores and you keep the mess going worse than kids. Man if you can’t contribute something positive to the change then find something else to do. Rodney King said it best himself after his brutal beating, why can’t we all get along? (Now I can just imagine there is somebody just waiting anxioulsy to say something negative about this sentence, but before you do I will let you know that I know him personally and he like so many others is not the individual the media protrayed him to be) Is this what we are going to do all of our lives is beat another person down with not just sticks but words. Man stick to the subject.
On the subject of the Gulf Oil Spill I work for an environmental consulting firm and some of our staff are there working long hours (try 98 hours in a one week work week for one of our employees), away from their families, some have been injusred while doing so. They need our prayers so may I suggest that while those of you who are sitting in the comfort of where ever you are thinking of negative things to say, think of these people. There are more people affected by this than you can imagine. My hearts and prayers to them all and especially to my co-workers who are deployed there. And to Barack Obama and Michelle you are the best looking couple that have ever graced the steps of the White House, how many of you wish you were in that lady’s shoes.
Well, we all have our opinions and feelings about most everything that goes on in the world, as well as the freedom to express them just as you just have, and for that I am truly grateful from the bottom of my heart….I do not discriminate regarding race…I blame BP alone for the spill…and although I can only speak for myself, I am pretty clued in to the enormity of the disaster…..no don’t wish I was in her shoes.
Alma, I’m not a fan of the president either and it has nothing to do with race. The only person who has mentioned his race is you. He’s not immune from criticiism because he’s a black president, and crying racism when the president is criticized over his actions, inactions and policiies ignores those issues as if they are of no conseqeuence –when in fact they are the very substance of what he was elected to do.
No he didnt cause the oil spill. But he also was slow to respond, and there is no question but he accepted oil laced money in his presdential campaign and also has oil industry ties from the election. He is the president, he is responsible for the government’s response…..includng a slowness to action. yes he is now more engaged and I’m glad to see that, but it was only after being on the receiving end of much criticism about his slowness to act.
I think we will all learn why he was slow to respond to a discussion with some of the BP folks and it will involve legalities. I didn’t find this to be his best speech. But the President acted much quicker then most think – sadly we have an industry that when a serious problem develops – like an oil blast – there is no way to stop the leak. That is pitiful. Despite regulatory problems with the MMMS – BP is the culprit here. Lets give the President credit for wanting to do the right thing. Lets learn from what has happened and do our best to require the industry to either come up with real plans to address an oil blast, or prevent them from drilling until we are all satisfied that as much as possible has been done to prevent the same problem before we start this type of drilling again.
Politics is front and center on this issue. Many want the President to fail and they will vote no, and whine about anything they can. What amazes me most is there are actually people that feel the President is purposely not plugging the hole. I think that both BP and the President want the oil gushing into the ocean to be stopped as quickly as possible. We just don’t have a quick fix.
I agree with this. I don’t believe Obama was as slow to act as the public perceives. I’ve been watching the white house site for some time now and see much more activity than I hear about on the news. Also watched FOX after the speech last night, and was surprised to hear Sarah Palin say we weren’t letting foreign countries help.
“To date, the administration has leveraged assets and skills from numerous foreign countries and international organizations as part of this historic, all-hands-on-deck response, including Canada, Germany, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, the United Nations’ International Maritime Organization and the European Union’s Monitoring and Information Centre.”
So a lot of misinformation is out there as well. And yes, he was constrained by law at points, and conflicts between private corporation rights and federal intervention. And maybe he was a little confused by being asked by “no big government” Bobby Jindal for federal services.
He was also hampered by misinformation received from BP.
I think he was slow to publicize what he was doing, and I’m sad that he has to waste precious time fighting on the political front because of this. Bureaucracy moves slowly, and things could and should have been (and still need to be) handled better and faster. But to say, as many are, that public opinion whipped him into action, is not supported by facts. And to say he doesn’t care, or doesn’t want the hole plugged, is preposterous
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/06/15/ongoing-administration-wide-response-deepwater-bp-oil-spill-june-15-2010
Six in 10 Americans now disapprove of his handling of this crisis–and this poll was taken after his speech.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/17/cnn-poll-rise-in-disapproval-of-obama-handling-of-oil-spill/?iref=allsearch&fbid=OqFMoO9Kdzm
Of course this will change as time goes on because people actually think he can stop the leak. And just like during health care – opponents are doing everything they can to take the focus off the real cause of the problem, BP. Yesterday’s comment by your big oil representative in Texas will help turn the tide as time goes on and people realize the republican party has allowed big oil to do as they please no matter what the consequences to our country. What a farce.
Did your feelings about Bush’s handling of Katrina change with time? Likely not. Dont se why this will change either.
As far as blaming it on Bush and the Republicans (yet again and still….everything that happens is Bush’s fault, right?) ….Obama has had more than a year in office to fix longstanding and well-documented mismanagement at the MMS agency….so why hasn’t he?
At what point does BO actually become responsible for what happens on his watch and his tenure? It apears that the liberal left are bound and determined to make sure BO is the only president in history who will leave office without being held accountable for anything. Apparently the plaque on his desk reads “The buck starts here.”
Yes my feelings about Bush and Katrina did change over time, it’s more likely that your feelings about our current President were negative before he ever took office! Bush had some bad apples in the system and was ill advised by Karl Rove and other close advisors. I don’t think he purposely left folks on rooftops begging for help. But that is an entirely different situation then responding to the current oil blast. I also don’t think Bush wanted millions of dollars spent by Fema on trailers that sat on a lot and were destroyed because they weren’t safe to use and I don’t think Bush told FEMA representatives to give money out for fraudulent claims to people who didn’t even live in the affected area. Bush saw the need for action and ordered something be done more quickly. The system screwed up big time.
We elect a President and expect that while stepping in and providing leadership over a multitude of issues, that he be able to significantly change government agencies that are entrenched in years of operating the same way, or in the case of MMS, controlled by big oil. Obama promised change but it’s such a farce to think that promise means everything would be better in less then 2 years. He has done a great deal to be more transparent the any previous administration. You want unrealistic action to the point that it’s just a political attack.
Knowing MMS is a problem and making changes to solve a long standing, chronic problem that has been supported by members of congress for ages, is very unrealistic. Bush had some folks in charge during Katrina and he thought they were doing their jobs. But with regard to MMS – it is well known that the cronies of big oil protect big oils profits and interests. Just replay the Texas congress persons pitiful apology to BP. This guy gets more money from oil then any other member of the house or senate. We already went thru the 2005 explosion in Texas which I’m sure you know well.
Republicans tend to support corporate interests and promote deregulation. Under Bush it’s a well known fact that oil companies were given more freedom to police themselves. This was Cheney’s big interest. BP has chronically violated safety standards for it’s workers (watch Anderson Coopers investigative reports and look at the court case against BP after the Texas explosion).
It wasn’t my opinion of Bush that was the issue, it was my opinion of his political guys and his vice president that grew more negative. I don’t think Obama, any more then Bush, want the people of the Gulf, or anywhere in the country to be harmed.
You have a totally unrealistic argument about someone being in office for “more then a year” be able to fix longstanding problems. That’s just another anti Obama statement to rile people up. I haven’t heard anyone, including the President, say he wasn’t in charge and responsible for resolving problems that come about on his watch. Your statement on the liberal left is BS big time. Just use any post to tag on something to attack – no matter whether it’s true or not.
This post is about how YOU will respond to better take care of our environment. Other then vote someone out of office – why not respond to what you are doing yourself – which is how this started out.
I generally agree with you on President Bush and the Katrina aftermath actually. What is more disgusting about the Katrina devastation to me is everyone knew for years of the problems of the levees and did nothing about it. It was inevitable that it would happen–and it did. And then everyone points fingers and lays blame.
And i see similarities here. Just like the mess of MMS is known and has been known for years, and hasnt been addressed by any elected official either…….including BO. And yes he has had time too. How long does it take to say ‘clean it up’ and here’s a deadline and I’ll ask for updates reguarly?
I know where the post started but posts do take on threads and subthreads as more people introduce new topics. You certainly have participated yoruself and taking posts to new and different places. But since you asked: My house is as green as most, and no it isn’t on the extreme end. We do what we can (recycle, filter on own tap water, minimize paper consumption, etc.) within the confines of the reality of our lives.
If anyone gets riled up based on waht I post–well then, they own their own reactions and feelings. If they choose to get riled up, then likely I shared something they didn’t know and its rubbing them in a sensitive spot. GOOD. Think of it as a Dallas Lady Public Service Announcement. They can choose to ignore it, they can choose to discard it…..and some may actuallythink about it, learn something from it, and then go forth and seek out additional information and reach their own conclusions on the matter.
It’s all good.
President Obama did appoint a guy to clean up MMS and he was working on it. You could use your argument to say for 8 years Bush knew about BP and didn’t do anything to really clean them up, or shut down their unsafe operations. Have you ever worked for a government agency? Entrenched with political support often for those violating rules and regulations. Cleaning up MMS includes taking on the likes of congress persons who apologize to BP for the blast. You not only have to go after the employee’s doing harm, but you have to get their clout to get out of the way. Not an easy thing to do.
Seems to me many posts get misdirected to attacking the president rather then responding to the issues of the post – someone starts the misdirection rather then twists and turns in posts. I don’t know about the public service announcement. I think of it as a Public Service Myth. the more one can attack the president – the more it feeds into those who are angry about the spill – and it just breeds more anger rather then solutions.
Seems to me that many posts get misdirected to attacking the President rather then responding to the issues.
I don’t know about the public service piece – I think of it as a Pubic Myth Announcement!
Lots of posts get redirected and meander. Seem to recall a national debt-related post I made get redirected by you to HS graduation rates yourself. Yours go wherever you take them–others go wherever their posts take them. Its all good, and its OK within the parameters of the Community Guidelines, right?
As far as myths……If I present something as fact, then I can and do back it up with sources as to where I got my information. And often with links. I heartily recommend that practice to others it helps make the dialogue all that much richer. Try it sometime, you might like it~!
Now if I present an opinion–then its all mine, and I’m privileged to have the opportunity to share it here at VN….just as we all do. It’s all good.
BO just appointed the guy THIS WEEK…………… Its 18 months overdue on his watch. And the oil spill started 2 months ago~! He just did it now because this crisis forced his hand to do it…. So don’t spin it into something it isn’t. Which is political expediency, nothing more.
And yes, Bush should have done it before him. And Clinton too for that matter. But BOs president now…and this is on his watch. 18 months later………….
Yes, this guy was just appointed. But Obama has been working on MMS since before last September and Salazar announced a review and reform initiative of MMS practices in January after nailing them in the Colorado scandal.
Hows that working out for us? What update did we get–what findings, what changes?
Looks like it’s working out pretty well. If you’re really interested, DOI and MMS sites have update information.
Perhaps you should look into the feelings of the Center for Biological Diversity about that–they beg to differ.
The oil spill began in April 2010. Salazar made no announcements of substance prior to May 2010 , when he announced that he intended to split the scandal-ridden MMS into two agencies to address some of the problems with oversight……again after the crisis—not before. Many problems do predate Salazar, but it’s clear that some things have not changed in the past year and a half. Pretending otherwise is revisionist history and hypocritical.
In the weeks following the gulf crisis, regulators at MMS granted approval for 27 new drilling plans in the region—and exempted 26 projects from environmental review. While BO kiboshed new drilling, a number of wells already in the works seem to have been given the OK. Amazingly, The Center for Biological Diversity studied 27 projects that have received a seal of approval from MMS after the April explosion. What did they find? That environmental reviews were waived in all but one of them…….in other words 26 of 27 were granted an exclusion from review under the EPA. In fact, the MMS granted approval on May 6 for another BP exploration project in the Gulf, after the current crisis.
Sounds like business as usual to me.
Of course things haven’t changed overnight. MMS is bigger than oil drilling. Funny how everyone screamed to take our time on the health care bill to get it right. But we can’t see that fundamental changes to any large company or government entity also take time. I’ve worked on restructuring projects before. My last project before I retired took over a year and is still being implemented 2 years later. I agree that some things haven’t changed and am aware of the waiver issue. But progress is being made, as cited on the web sites. And they are reacting to issues occurring with this spill with more changes. The DOI and MMS were a mess when Obama took over. Since then, they’ve prosecuted the Denver scandal, settled with the Native Americans, changed autditing procedures and added auditors, and a host of other changes. And now they are working on oil drilling. Pretty productive in my book.
I think it is funny that he can push healthcare through in 18 months despite opposition, and one thing most people can agree with that needed to done (MMS cleanup)…..has been nothing but all talk and positioning and hot air and no results. All they’ve done is push papers around a desk and rearrange an organization chart. Everything you cited is beauracratic and minutae. Nothing has impacted oil drilling they’ve done. Nothing. And yet they’ve exempted EPA review of new oil drilling approved sincce the crisis? Puh Leez.
Something to do with oil laced campaign money in my opinion.
Its’ better to do good things thent talk about the good things you are going to do. And cleaning up MMS has been nothing b ut all talk until this crisis occurred, and truthfully a lot of posturing and blathering and no real change since it either. Things that make me go hhhmmmm………
There have been quantifiabe results within MMS. To say that MMS has done nothing but talk is simply not true. Sorry they are not happening as fast as you or I want them and in the order we want to see them. I’m not disappointed that you are ignoring the facts of what they have done , though. I pretty much expected that.
what a coincidence. I’m disappointed that you aren’t appalled that they have continued to aprove oil drilling without EPA review, and have also approved nother BP well in the gulf since the crisis began. But I pretty much expected that as well.
Things that make me go hhhmmm.
Didn’t say I wasn’t appalled. Simply don’t feel like meandering down that road with you. Just as you don’t wish to acknowledge what has been done at DOI and MMS. Pretty bored with this thread now. I’m done here.
Bye then~! If i had a cute dog like that, i’d be floating in the pool with him too~~~
…
Like he hasn’t had anything else on his plate to deal with? I wonder if you think he is Superman? Eighteen months is a very short time when you consider everything that has landed in his lap . . . God help him. And God help us to have a little more patience and offer a lot more support to the man we elected to lead us. We should be thinking and talking about what WE can do to help — not offering constant criticism. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
No I dont think he’s superman and I do think he’s quite fallible indeed. He’s fallen way short of his campaign promises in many ways…….from his own expansion in oil drilling, to closed door sessions on healthcare, to using behind the scenes manipulation in elections (the spector fiasco).
As to what I am doing: as ansered previously our home is as green as most. And I am very engaged at the local adn state levels in advocacy on many issues (including better and more public transporation acorss the north texas metropolex.)
I will support him when he’s right (which he is on gays in the military by way of exaple)….and I will call him out when he’s wrong.
It’s the American and the patriotic thing to do.
You actually support something from this President’s administration??? I’m shocked. How green are most home? What have you been doing to help make the planet a better place to live. I’m thinking Texas has one of the worst records of any state on pollution. And come on – you favor drilling – so why bash the president on that. Any fiasco Obama has been involved in is a fraction of what went on with Dick Cheney in the White House. There’s nothing illegal about asking someone not to run for an office in a political party fight – Clinton did the asking and nothing illegal about it. Just about every party supported candidate is questioned behind the scenes. This is silly stuff – I think Obama used to say – “time for silly season.”
Whining does seem to be the American way lately – however, it’s not patriotic.
If you are shocked, then you havent been paying attention, or you have been assuming a lot erroneously. Either way, then you are mistaken. That isn’t the first (or only) time I’ve indicated what I do support. As far as “as green as most”–I answered the question already Lilly with examples, so perhaps you missed that too. What the Spector issue illegal ? No. What is politics as usual and inconsistent with the platform BO ran on? Oh yes it was and you know it was. it was plitics as usual all the way and darn close to bribery and tampering with elections–but legal, so hey, its all good.
Drinking koolaid and blindly following seems to be some people’s choices. Mine is to agree when i agree, dissent when I disagree–and make my voice, my first amendment rights and my vote heard. And yes, Lilly, that IS patriotic.
Bashing him for 18 mo and having appointments held up by congress is far off from reality – but the usual continuation of whining about the President as expected.
I’m sorry, but would you like to be specific with this comment as it relates to his non-activity of real, substantive nature that leads to change at the MMS? What has congress held him up from doing at MMS exactly, hhhhmmmm”?????? That IS the subject of these exchanges, so it wold be helpful to back that up with folks–otherwise, it appears to be nonspecific, avoidant generalized whining to avoid the assertion I’ve made about the lack of cleanup at MMS.
About as many who believed Iraq had WMDs during the Bush-Kerry election.
We base our opinions on what we know. What we know is partially based on where we choose to get our information and how much we want to learn about a subject. Poll numbers are also influenced by the questions asked and how they are worded. The poll doesn’t surprise me. If all I did was watch cable news – any channel – I’d probably have the same opinion.
We also tend to allow our opinions of people get in the way of objectively critiquing their actions. If Obama held a press conference today and proclaimed that it was “Don’t Kill Innocent Puppies Day”, I dare say 6 in 10 would find a reason to disapprove of that, too.
Anyway, my post was not questioning how many people disapprove. But why I think they do, and why I disagree with that reasoning.
No doubt we have a better line of sight to assess BOs gulf crisis response than we did Hussein’s Iraqi weaponry
I’m sure we do. But the people who believed there were WMDs did so after it was determined there weren’t any, a fact that was widely reported (9/04). The poll I cited was 2 months after the ISG officially broke the bad news to W. Interim reports were issued and reported on prior to that time, supporting that conclusion. So the line of sight at the time of the poll was pretty clear to those who weren’t wearing blinders.
I’m pretty sure the American people are much moreand better informed informed about the state of the gulf crisis in 2010 than they were about Iraq’s so called WMD half way around the world in a dictatorship without the benefit of a free press.
I guess you missed the significance of the poll date. We got into Iraq in spring of ’03. Some still theorize that Sadam got it all out of the country beforehand (to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan . . . . pick a country). But all “evidence” supporting those theories has been explained. My belief is, if that had been the case, W would certainly have let us know.
What I miss is the relevance of the existence — or not — of WMD in iraq to a post about BO mishandling the gulf crisis. I can only assume you are trying to dismiss the intelligence of the US citizens being able to reach intelligent conclusions based on what they see and observe first hand in watching their president.
But they were right about Bush at the end of his 8 years in office in your opinion no doubt. They are just wrong about BO right now. That is the point you are trying to make — isnt it?
I have more faith and belief in my felllow citizens that that.
Well, as you said, many posts get redirected and meander. My point, as you know, was that Americans don’t always get it right, even when given a wealth of information to form an opinion. My following posts, as you also know, was to clarify that your point about them not having enough information was not true.
No, that was not my opinion after 8 years of Bush. If they had been knowledgeable about him, they would have been right to not elect him in the first place. (oh wait, the majority didn’t). It took almost 8 years for them to wise up.
I’m sorry. But I do not have the faith that you do in my fellow citizens when it comes to critiquing our government and those who run it. I can’t say that it’s intelligence, though. I chalk it up to laziness.
Since you are into polls, recent CBS poll on Harry Reid for instance said that 50% haven’t heard enough to form an opinion. Really. Well, at least they were honest. And fewer than that actually knew he was Senate Majority leader (pew). In fact, more people know what Stephen Colbert’s job is than know what Harry’s is (pew). During the health care process, only a third knew in January that the Senate had not voted on a bill yet (not to mention how many votes it takes to break a filibuster)(pew). This information was repeated constantly in the media. I live in a country where LESS than 6 in 10 adult Americans can name the 3 branches of government – grade school stuff (ABA). My nephew had someone come to his door last month asking him to sign a petition to impeach Obama. When he asked what the grounds were for impeachment, the man told him that his policies were leading us into socialism. Couldn’t name one possible impeachable offense.
And here’s my favorite poll tidbit that Brit Hume put together from Zogby in 06:
“Zogby Poll: Most Americans Can Name Three Stooges, But Not Three Branches of Gov’t Tuesday, August 15, 2006 By Brit Hume
A recent poll found that nearly three-quarters of those asked could name each of the Three Stooges — Larry, Curly and Moe — but only 42 percent were able to name the legislative, executive and judicial branches of government.
That’s according to a new Zogby poll in which 77 percent of Americans could name two of the seven dwarfs, while just 24 percent knew two of the nine Supreme Court justices.
And while 57 percent of Americans could name fictional boy wizard Harry Potter, less than half could name Great Britain’s real prime minister, Tony Blair.”
Well, at least they got a little smarter about the 3 branches of government in 4 years. There’s still hope. I would love to believe in my fellow citizens. But only when the public shows less ignorance, will my faith be restored.
Six in ten Americans don’t know who’s buried in Grant’s tomb!
You know, you are right. I’m wrong. Americans are idiots. They voted for him to be president, didn’t they? They voted for Bush twice too, and they hated him in the end too
Clearly they are idiots and shouldnt be trusted in the voting booth.
Voting is often based on being against something rather then understanding the issues and making decisions in everyone’s best interests. This next go round of voting will be pathetic. We have people just out to vote against someone – many willing to vote for any ya who on the ballot that isn’t an incumbent. Good, smart and needed republican’s and democrats are going to be replaced by some really strange thinking people because of the Tea Party movement and the rally to vote out any incumbent. You called them idiots – I’m calling them poorly educated people who buy into hatred much more then study the issues and make well informed decisions. If anyone thinks the system is broken now – just wait until we have some totally senseless people elected out of hatred for others, not out of real support for their candidacy.
I agree with you about voting against something rather than for it–goodness knows i was holding my nose when I voted with McCain and rolling my eyes at the VP on the ballot with him. I’m starting to actually see the Tea Party get traction–and so are you. Being a Libeterian myself, I appreciate many of the viewpoints they express at times.
And my tongue was firmly in my cheek in my phraseology above and i was being sarcastic, which you know. I’ve already said I have faith in the American public–so why didn’t you comment on that when I posted it?
He has always been engaged – he just didn’t get on tv and brag about it. The President inherited a system that doesn’t move well during a crisis. We didn’t even have enough boom that wasn’t tattered and torn to do the job right away. BP is the cause of the oil blast – BP’s bottom line has been to deceive the public and keep information from us. Let’s keep the focus on the real offender – BP and what they have done to our environment. BP has lied all along the way. The President is working to deal with the worst oil disaster ever. Folks might cut him some slack – but then many wouldn’t care what he does – they will complain and wine, wine, wine.
You are so right. He has been engaged….and he didn’t get on TV. What has he beeen engaged in? GOLF.
He compared the gulf crisis to 9/11 and then he went and spent several hours with a golf club in his hand.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/06/obama-tells-politico-the-oil-spill-is-like-9-11-then-goes-golfing-for-4-hours/
Yes dear …. GOLF. Immediately after comparing this crisis to 9/11. HELLO???????
BO has golfed 32 times since he was elected–eight more times than President George W. Bush did during his entire presidency.
This is the most bogus stuff I’ve ever seen. Bush was a rotten golfer and did other things instead. Fortunately, he didn’t go hunting with Cheney or he would have been replaced before his term was up. Every president does things to cope with the stress of the job. The guy also plays basketball and takes his wife out to eat periodically. So what.
Are you saying he didnt compare the gulf oil crisis to 9/11? Are you saying he didn’t then go play golf for 4 hours right after saying that to the media?
I’m saying you are doing all you can to distract people from the real issues. Every president does things to deal with stress. You want to make something out of anything you can. Throwing in the stuff about Bush’s number of golf trips was just to inflame people. Anything that people can put out there to attack – that’s what I’m saying.
It wouldn’t matter what Obama did at any time, or when. You would pick it apart.
I’m not the one distracted from the real issue.
It appears that it was BO that was “distracted from the real issue”………distracted by golf from the real issue of the gulf crisis. And 60% of Americans feel similarly than I do according to yesterdays CNN poll about his handling of it.
Yes, and he has had 32 times more stress to deal with – much of it inherited from W. If it helps him to golf, then let him golf — sometimes we do our best thinking when we allow ourselves a little recreation.
Dear Lord in heaven–did you really just say that Obama has had 32 times the stress in 18 months than GWB did during his 8 years of presidency …..when 9/11 occurred?? when katrina occurred? Seriously????!?!?!?!!!
I’m flabberghasted beyond belief that such a statement could even be conceived of. Wow. Just wow. Utterly amazing.
I’ll give him 9/11. But I saw the the photos of W and McCain photo-opping the day Katrina hit. They were laughing and sharing McCain’s birthday cake. Yep, he sure looked stressed that people were drowning.
It’s useless to get into a quantitative debate about stress levels. Every president works in a pressure cooker and every president needs a way to handle it. W cleared brush, jogged, and rode his bike (and celebrated birthdays). Obama plays golf and bball. It’s good that they have outlets.
Puhleez. Stress levels in 18 months of BO’s tenure vs 8 years of GWB’s being 32 x more ? That statement is a joke. Not even close.
Obama probably has had 62 times more stress. Bush didn’t have to deal with several things going on at the same time when he first started out as president – especially as drastic as an almost depression in the country. Obama started with the worst economy ever, 2 wars, budget nightmare, etc. Bush thrived on 9/11 because he wanted a reason to go to war with Iraq and he got one. Bush took the focus off of regulations and look where we are today – oil everywhere. I know – you blame Obama for the oil blast because you think he should have already cleaned up every government agency. Now add to that the hatred President Obama has faced because of his race (yes he faces a lot of it) and few presidents have faced as many different issues , of such gravity, less then 2 years into their presidency. No other president has faced a congress in which one political party decided, even if it’s a good idea, even if it was a republican idea, they would all vote no purposely to try and bring the president down.
Even with all of this he has managed to withstand pressures and make an agreement to force BP to better handle payments for persons harmed by the oil blast, funding for unemployed rig workers, and still pass a number of successful pieces of legislation. He’s done more in 18 months then any other president. He has been more transparent then any other president. He’s faced more amazingly made up bashing then any other president taking over office.
So the statement is not a joke – just not to your liking.
“Bush thrived on 9/11″
Dear Lord in heaven, the man cried on TV at the sorrow and the devastation…..as the entire nation did. And you think he thrived on that? Only a monster would thrrive on it. And to accuse someone of thriving on it? I’m beyond appalled at the mere suggestion.
Its impossible to compare the last 18 months to 8 years that includes the devastation of 9/11 and the devastation of katrina. Pretending otherwise is ludicrous. But based on the statement that Bush “thrived” on 9/11 ……nothing could be any more inconceivable and beyond the realm of reality and I find that allegation beyond distasteful.
LOL. Hope someone was there grab you when you fainted. That little drama you attempted to derive out of such an obviously out of context quote is so transparent, birds keep flying into it. No one said he thrived emotionally. And only the most callous, say Al Quaeda, would. But politically? That’s hard to dispute. Bush would never have had the go ahead to invade Iraq, as it is documented that he wanted to do, had it not been for 9/11. His popularity would never have soared and he would most likely have never been reelected for a second term. So as sure as I am that he didn’t want 9/11 to be the cause of his successes, i’m equally certain it was a major contibuter.
LOL? Nothing to laugh about in this conversation. Wait I thought you were done with the conversation anyway?
Step back and read the entirety of the thread for context ….and I’m right on target in my response. Given the context of the thread was comparing the stress of the two administrations–first Lilly refuted the stress of 9/11 (which even you conceded the comparison was wrong–quote “I give you 9/11″) and then Lilly said GWB thrived it. Did he rise to it, was he galvanized to act–yes he was. But thrived on it? I find such a concept reprehensible. And his response and actions to 9/11 hardly had him leave office a popular president either. Thrived?
Thriving is a word involving positiveness and health…..there is nothing positive or healthy where 9/11 is concerned. Nothing.
And this is a conversation I am choosing to leave, because I find the whole concept of claiming that GWB thrived in the aftermath of 9/11 distasteful and disturbing. As well as a defense of same.
Consider me out of this one for good. I’ll let others’ words speak for themselves.
Well, yes. sorry my incorrect word use misled you into thinking I was leaving the thread. I meant the part where your repetitively selective responses were boring me and I was wasting time reading and responding to them. My bad.
Given your narrow definition of the word “thrive”, one can almost follow your reasoning and understand your apoplectic responses. However. Lilly did not refute the stress of 9/11. So the whole argument falls to pieces at the very beginning.
If you bother to check a dictionary or two, you’ll see that thrive means to make progress and be successful. It is used in the context of health. But is not limited to health. W made progress in his quest to take Iraq to the cleaners and succeeded in getting another term – because of 9/11. Therefore he (by definition) thrived on that event. I find that fact disturbing and distasteful also. Always did. But that doesn’t mean it’s not true.
However, looking back through the thread, as you suggested, did help me conclude that you are leaving the conversation because you have no constructive input to the subject others want to discuss and your attempts to distract them have failed.
I am not repsonding about 9/11, stress levels of presidential administrations, or comparisons to the GUlf.
I am however saying your prsonalness about me is duly noted; the fact that you are now disapraging me and not political positions is as well. I will also note that I havent personally attacked you in any way. Positions you take? yes of course.
I’ll give your comments the consideration they deserve.
Nope, sorry. Made it a point to discuss the content of your postings and offer my opinion of them, rather than posting my opinions of you or attacking you personally, which is against the guidelines. As the guidelines also say, if you can’t stand the heat, get outta the kitchen.
Oh gee. I’m so glad to hear comments like “If you bother to check a dictionary or two” or “you have no consructive input” or “you were boring me” werent personal or disparaging.
Pretending as if those comment arent there and aren’t personal–really? I can handle heat just fine. And I can discuss politics with passion with posters with whom i disagreee without resorting to personal insults like “you are boring me” or “you have no constructive input” to feel as if I made a relevant point that actually adds to the topic.
Seriously, did you check a dictionary before redefining a word you used to base your argument on? And on the topic I got bored with, your input was not constructive, in my opinion, to the subject being discussed. Rather, it latched on to a single thought and beat it to death instead of acknowledging the post it was responding to and going from there, or just simply not responding. Those kind of posts always bore me after a while, no matter who writes them. (Didn’t say you were boring. I don’t think anyone can truthfully say that). So no pretending that those comments weren’t there. They represented my opinion of your comments.
The only way my posts were personal, was that I was responding to comments that you, personally, posted. I do use sarcasm when I write, as others, including you, often do. If you peruse some of your own comments on this thread and others, in an objective light, you will find sarcastic statements that a reader could take as personal attack. And they might assume you are pretending they aren’t. So to me, it’s yet another instance of the pot calling the kettle black. Seems you only took my comments personally after I called you out on a preposterous response to another poster’s comments. A response you couldn’t logically defend. This led me to believe it got a little too hot for you here.
Now I will get personal. You are obviously one of the more intelligent and knowledgeable woman on this site. I believe your posts could really offer fresh insight and enlighten people. But they often come across as bullying and antagonizing. And what comes across to me as a ‘playing dumb” act (eg having no idea what WMDs have to do with the gulf crisis, when you know perfectly well, it was only used to illustrate a point about the quality of polls, after you cited a poll), is simply distracting. A little more concession or acknowledgment when someone makes a valid point that contradicts yours, relevant responses, and fewer theatrics, would make your comments more credible and more people would take them seriously and respect your opinions. I would hope that that is why you are active on this site.
I’m not here for any social hugs; have love at home. I’m here to discuss politics not other posters. As Eleanor Roosevelt said (paraphrased) “Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, weak minds talk about other people”.
Your opinion of me is simply none of my business, and I couldn’t possibly care less about what you think of me. I generally don’t discuss other posters pesonally on here — beyond actually complimenting — unless they go there with me first. And then I will call it out. You were personal with me and I called it out. And you continue to do so. This is a fact. I haven’t posted about your personally at all. I haven’t said you are this or that or anything. I have strongly attacked your positions and opinions–but not you. This is a fact.
I don’t have to discuss you or judge you to discuss politics. And you don’t have to discuss or publicly judge me to do the same. And if a strong stance of positions or a strong debate of arguments or questioning is cosdiered bullying–then I would suggest someone may not want to post on the politics board. I don’t consider strong arguments of philosphies and positions — or even challengning same — to be bullying unless they get personal and are about the poster themself. And so we will likely continue on because that is not going to change about me.
I will however thank you for the compliment of my intelligence. I’m happy to report hat’s not going to change about me either.
I have not stated my opinion of you other than I feel you have intelligence that I believe you are under-utilizing. That is a fact. I have stated my opinion on the content and tone of your posts and how they could become helpful to and respectful of myself and others.
As for your allegations and justifications all I can say is “The lady doth protest to much, methinks”.
More about me–still? A new hobby is definitely in order.
Anything happen in politics today??? Lets talk about that instead, shall we? I’m way too boring to spend so much time discussing……….
Not about you. More about my position on the matter. Since you responded, I assumed you wanted to discuss it and answered your post.
And since you responded with nothing about politics, I guess we are done on this thread. Whew.
Since you deftly changed the subject, I’ll take that as conceding that you see my point of view. Whew.
Nope. Just as long as your subject of choice is me, you are talking to the hand. My friends and family have the right and my invitation to discuss me. You? Couldn’t care any less what you think about me. Your opinion of me is none of my business.
Now if the subject is politics …… would love to participate.
Ah, the hand! That explains everything! Glad you cleared that up.
Hi Dallas Lady – I put a vote for loving your statement because it is so blatantly about how you attack others that I couldn’t help it. Surely you jest about discussing politics without making personal insults – if you feel someone else saying “you are boring me” – I’ve heard that from you before – and so much bullying and piling on. I don’t think you can handle any heat. Everything becomes personal to you – especially when it comes to a disagreement about anything you believe in politically – then you start bashing and piling on. You can dish it out but can’t take it. When you stop picking on others personally – others will stop dishing it back to you. I’ve been attacked personally by you many times but decided to keep on going and dish it back just the same. You do fine when you can comment on another person’s statement with a right on sister – and attack others – but when you don’t have that cover it’s then personal about you.
When you lighten up – I believe others will. I joined this group and the first thing I ran into was demanding behavior by you and some snobbish comments that were personal. Perhaps you don’t realize some of this – I don’t know – but I’m one who is going to dish it back every time you put something on me. You can’t control every political discussion you participate in – no one can.
So much about me……….? Really? Have I personally insulted you or other posters in this thread? I don’t think so.
I’ve never told someone I was bored by them. I have said that I would bet that “we” were boring others with our back and forth, and there is a distinct difference between the two. Others may not see the difference in those statements, I do.
However in the spirit of not belaboring points …I will recommit to not make personal statements or personal judgments about other posters on a go forward basis. I will continue to comment on opinions and positions–but I will not make personal comments or aspersions about other people. Can you recommit to the same yourself? Thanks in advance for your con sideration of this.
There is nothing positive about 9/11 but Bush used the terrorist attack to help wage war in Iraq. He thrived on it – for him it was used in a positive way and got his adrenalin going. This was the part of his term that he feels he will best be remembered for in a positive way – waging war on Iraq – the Pre-emptive Strike concept he promoted. Only thing is he had the wrong people and no weapons of mass destruction.
As far as leaving conversations I recall a thread (probably more then one) where you were leaving many times but came back. Your finding something distasteful and disturbing is bull – that’s just an attack. You know I wasn’t saying Bush wanted 9/11 to occur – you just saw something to spin on – so you could be more personal. An over reaction to words not intended as you put them out there in your posts.
It doesn’t matter that he cried on TV. Everyone cried – no one wanted an attack on our people – but it gave Bush the opportunity to go after Iraq which is what he wanted to do. So he then thrived on 9/11. What you find distasteful doesn’t matter to me. Bush thrived on 9/11 – I didn’t say he wanted it to happen – but he used it big time to rally public support for HIS dishonest war.
I saw this and never went to the link until now. It implies a comparison of the the physical impacts each crisis made. I found it wierd that Obama would view the two as similar in that respect. This is not really an in-depth story. If you actually go to the original story at politico, you can see what the president actually said:
““In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11,” the president said in an Oval Office interview on Friday, “I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38468.html#ixzz0rXqXx5bI
And no. to save you the time, I am not saying that the oil spill is not an urgent crisis. I’m just saying that it’s smart to go beyond the bashing article to get the facts.
By the way, how many times has Obama holed up on his ranch and cleared brush and split firewood so far? I’ve lost count.
I’m not sure what point you are making here with the link and the story exactly? I too have read the story (and thougth it was weak and lame and the comparison to 9/11 ridiculous).
BO’s own carbon footprint might be better if he went to a ranch (the ranch in crawford by the way is way greener than anything Al Gore owns, sad by true).
Instead he hops Air Force One and all its contingent (chaser planes, helicopters et al) for night on Broadway at country expense. Those rounds of golf for BO and pals add up pretty quickly at $300-$400 per peson per pop.
The link you provided was a lame Obama bashing piece. I find what the president actually said to be more substantial. And the comparison that shows he thinks both are a catalyst to change policy in this country quite true.
Nice to see you meandering from my points and back to the subject at hand. Yes, we are all paying more attention to the fact that we need to get greener faster and at a higher level. And politicians are not exempt. I’m sure W took a Trailways bus every time he left DC for Crawford – not. But I’ll give him that, and Obama his golf and nights out with his wife. Minor, when you look at the big picture.
You can call it bashing. Easy to do when you dont like it. I didnt notice you claiming that the information within it was false however. Painful? Likely. It was — however — truthful. And the truth is indeed painful at times.
As far as meandering…..not all who wander are lost. And you too wander……somehow I’m still scratching my head over the relevance of WMDs, but hey……who am I to point out that I am not alone on that path? Lets just think of it as a journey of discovery ~~~~
Actually, it’s hard to claim an article with no substance to be true or false. It’s why I went to politico in the first place. As for the rest of your comment:
PUH-LEEEEZE.
LOL. Original. Not. But they say that imitiation is the sincerest form of flattery.
And what is false about it? He did compare it to 9/11–didn’t he? He did go golfing immediately there after–didn’t he? So what is false again? Thats all I posted about what those 2 facts.
You misinterpreted the 9/11 comparison and posted that misinterpretation. Took it from an article out of context. When given reference to the actual article so that you could read it – rather then someone’s re interpreted article you found on a blog. Obama did not compare it to 9/11 in the way you make it appear. It’s easy to use what you want to mislead others and bash someone.
My raeding comprehension is just fine, Lilly. He did compare it to 9/11……and he went golfing.
I hear that when BO was told about the BP President yachting, he got so upset he missed his putt.
President or not all of us have someone who does not care for us. It amazes me how people can no nothing about you and they form the opinion that I don’t care for her/him. Betcha you got folk that don’t like you either just because you are who you are or for what you stand for. Too sad and a lost. Me, I try and get to know people for myself and not take sides because of a political belief,etc. I betcha Obama would make you an awesome friend, Michelle is too cute aond stylish and could perhaps offer some fashion tips. The girls are adorable and I would love to be a part of their family and wish like so many other women that I could have been Mrs. Obama. He is so darn good looking, and smooth. I love the compelxion of his skin, he is the right height and just looks like he could kiss my tongue right out of my mouth. Darn that is a good looking man but since Michelle has scored with him you think he could be cloned? He is so good to look at whether I am interested in politics or not and he has been the best darn thing to look at as far as the president since Clinton. But I don’t think he will be a play boy like Clinton. As for Michelle, women despise her because she is very attractive, got a body to die for and she’s got the man everyone wishes they had. I can’t have Barack but I am working on getting my arms to look like her’s.
What the heck? You are telling us how handsome he is, how cute and stylish she is, etc etc etc. OK–what does THAT have to do with holding the most powerful position in the world, and the position of leader of the free world?
NOTHING. You just trivialized the office of the President of the United States of America. Dear God in heaven, Help us ALL if this is the basis of someone’s vote. When did the politics board convert over to Beauty & Style? But if you want to “go there”….well , you can have him. Not my type AT ALL. He has dumbo ears. He reeks of cigarette spoke. She looks manly and no doubt she’d take him (and you and me) in the best 3 out of 4 rounds. I’m not interested in either of them…..in that way.
Now that cute Harrison Ford who has PLAYED president a few times? Martin Sheen? You betcha. But I have no plans to vote for either one of them to actually BE President because of it.
I like “his dumbo ears”. But what I really like is he can speak in sentences (and not just with a teleprompter) and made something out of himself just like Bill Clinton. These men came from humble backgrounds. Wealthy families didn’t put them in the White House. I especially like that President Obama is an excellent role model for men and boys – to learn how to treat women – and to understand family responsibilities.
Michelle Obama is an excellent role model for women and mothers. She worked hard to be a scholar in high school and college and also comes from a humble background. Her concern for the welfare of her children is evident and she is working on a very worthwhile project to shed light on a terrible problem facing our nations youth – obesity. There are some who feel any woman who works out and is muscular is manly – I see her as physically fit. As far as First Ladies – I believe she is ranking up there as one of the best in the White House and is well liked by the public.
Now Lyndon Johnson – when they wrote about him having affairs – eeeewwwwhhhhh!! I’d rather gouge my eyes out
.
While i dont agree with your assessment of BOs presidential worthiness, at least your criteria isnt how handsome someone is, or if their wife has a wardrobe you covet.
I agree Dallas…A double what-the!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess men aren’t the only ones who think with something other than their brains……….lol. (couldn’t help myself
)
Alma .. I basically agree with both Sunblossom and Dallas. BO reminds me too much of an ex-husband who was also all words (logical, high sounding, American etc) and no action. I voted for the man and now I am ashamed he suckered me in. When married, I couldn’t buy my kids new school shoes. Now I can buy shoes. I hope that we can get this mess righted and that the monies can be allocated such that we can retrieve what was our ‘Gulf’. No I certainly do not wish to be in Michelle’s shoes. Press releases on how frugal she is with her clothes I applaud, however her spending on her offices and helpers not so much.
It saddens me that we are so quick to condemn this man who is working hard and trying to do the right thing. I wonder who could do any better. This man has so much on his plate that it’s a wonder he can even function! I think we all need to be praying for him and for our country. Only God is truly in control and I don’t think He can be proud of our behavior either in terms of caring for our environment or in terms of caring for one another. Why, oh why, can’t we come together in love and help heal our nation????
Guitar Grandma – it saddens me also. But we have to accept that no matter what the President does – there are folks that just don’t like him. As far as action – he’s accomplished more in the first part of his term then almost any president in history. It’s just not the type of things those who disagree with his agenda like – so he is often discredited. We have a family man in the White House. One who loves his wife, children – one who is very intelligent and tries to be certain he weights everything before he acts. I can’t think of any president in my time that has had to deal with so much as he came into office. Amazes me that the oil companies have been able to get away with so much, for so long. For the first time we have a President not afraid to sound them out on TV and tell the public how our government has been working with the companies to falsify documents in order to approve drilling projects and safety plans. Also amazes me there are people who think he should just “plug the hole”. If we had the technology to do this it would have already been done. No one wants the oil to keep blasting out!
Tonight there is going to be a special on MSNBC called “The New Right”. I’ve seen some of the clips and it should be very interesting. I hope you get to see it.
Guitar Grandma – please keep posting. There are many who feel as you do but don’t post for various reasons. You have good thoughts and ideas.
No matter who is doing what somebody is going to always complain, somebody is going to always not like the other. Oh well it is what it is. Slow to respond heck they say that all the time no matter what. They said that about Bushey when he was “slow to respond” after the hurricane. It goes on and on and their is always someone sitting around waiting to blame, to point the finger and where are we sitting in front of a computer, most are probably at home drinking their coffee pointing fingers. Our world is in a mess with the wars and all the other stuff going on let us all do our part in pitching in and trying to make it a better place for everyone. Right on Grandma for your comments. God has already blessed America we as his people just need to clean up our acts. .
Actually, they say it about W because he was slow to act before, during and after the hurricane. And because of that more people died than should have. But I’m with you that we spend more time blaming than we do doing, so I’ll drop it.
Thanks, Lilly. I wasn’t able to see Chris Matthew’s special last night, but I’m sure they’ll air it again. I also wonder what people are thinking when they say the President should just “plug the hole.” *sigh* If it were that easy, it would have been done . . . NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO DO IT! That is the terribly sad truth. And the fact that we drill without knowing how to deal with an accident like this is criminal.
Say, I didn’t condemn him, I just said I didn’t like him…two different things…I think it was suzen who said the president was the problem.
Dear Grandma … we have a number of people who have had executive experience. I liked the way Rudy Guillano took hold of 9/11, for example. I’m sorry but I don’t see BO as working hard except maybe to high jack the US … I don’t want “1984″ for my grand children … do you want a government that takes over daily activities?? banking, automotive and now fuel … one that stops the oil skimmers from working for lack of life jackets … why didn’t My Coast Guard take life jackets out to the guys that Were Working!! The whole debacle in the Gulf is embarrassingly full of Washington mismanagements … how Could he turn away legitamate foreign help?? so many errors … so very many families in crisis, those are the ones who need our prayers thru the coming years.
. . . and that’s is Rudy’s ONLY claim to fame. Yes, I do want a government that will regulate big business because big business won’t regulate itself. And the scare tactics such as you mention — “government taking over our daily activities” — disgust me. Our government has no interest in taking over our daily activities. However, they have been sent to Washington by us, the voters, to protect us from such things as BP’s willingness to cut corners in order to achieve bigger profits. Our problems right now are a result of too little government regulation, not too much!
What disgusts me is that people seem blind to the horrible increase of the govt debt … and I am afraid of big govt, I am not promoting scare tactics, I AM afraid of where things are going. I grew up full of “peace and love” until I’ve pretty well had it stomped down to noting.
And if that is Rudy’s ONLY claim to fame, I’ll take it and thank him for it. There is something to be said for ‘being there’ when needed.
To paraphrase: It’s not the rocks in the road that impede the journey, but the sand in the shoes … and I am not happy with the increasing things that I see being shovelled off to yet another bottomless pit that is going to cost my great great grandchildren another billion dollars. At some point one has to stand and return good to society, there is no free lunch and only taking from the system is going to kill it. I am willing to give a lot, but I heartly resent someone getting in my face and telling me I “owe them” and that they are going to take ‘their share’ … again I say baloney.
How messed up is this world? Now the US is going to sue Arizona… for trying to do the job that the US should have been doing in the first place … there is a lot written that just somehow does not seem to come to fruition … as was said before it is not time for ‘talking the talk’ but maybe a little more ‘walking the walk’. Thanks so much Hiliary for letting that news “just slip out” … I am really tired of being ‘played’ by bullies and those hungry for power and a free lunch…our politicians have forgotten what they might have learned in school, they are there to take care of the business of running a country…not just lining their pockets and getting ready to retire with those full pockets.
I’m sorry if I don’t say this as nicely as some would like … and I’m sure that you can pick this post completely apart … but the best thing that BO has done for the US is to finally get the ‘small’ people riled !! fini
Elli……I’m really starting to like you~!
Must be our heritage Dallas, I was born in FtWorth LOL !
was also going to add: it is More likely our graduation from the school of hard knocks.
I consider myself a greying warrior, running out of time to protect what I hold dear and so am ‘screaming’ a little louder than I did in years past when I was a ‘wife’ then a ‘busy working woman’ to now ‘someone who has a little time in the bank and wants to make a difference’ … yup a died in the wool ‘Flag Waving Gramma’ !! Glad you’re here on VN too !
I don’t think people are blind to the debt. First debt was inherited, second – the war was never put in the budget and President Obama did that for the first time – so that represented more debt – and decisions had to be made on how to prevent the country from going into a depression, financial market crash, total loss of pension funds for older Americans, a far worse mess regarding unemployment then we are now dealing with. I believe everyone is worried about the debt but decisions had to be made to stop the country from bleeding to death – we aren’t totally out of the woods yet – but it’s slowly getting better. There are those that think President Obama’s approach was wrong but there are many who understand why the debt increased and what we need to do for the future.
People can shout out – stop spending for the sake of their grandchildren BUT, we want those grandchildren to be able to continue to exist right now, and plan for their future as well. We have to do both!
whatever debt he inherited–he’s doubled it.
Inherited Debt? True. But that doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of the debt we are looking at.
It took the United States of America 233 years to amass a national debt of $11 trillion. BO’s record large 2009 budget deficit estimated at $1.85 trillion and his own spending plans for the next 10 years will douoble our national debt.
The CBO estimates that, including the record 2009 budget deficit of $1.85 trillion, and huge annual deficits over 2009-2019 will result in an additional $11.1 trillion in national debt, on top of the current $11.4 trillion.
According to the CBO, Obama plans to run a FY2010 deficit of apprx $1.4 trillion and almost $1 trillion in FY2011.
Keep in mind that these deficits do not include even half of the massive costs for BOs health insurance plan, which some experts now project will cost between $1.5 and $2 trillion over the next 10 years. Likewise, these projections do not include any money for the trillions that will have to be spent saving Social Security and Medicare over the next decade.
Heck even the democrats in Congress announced yesterday that they were going to tell him he had to cut his proposed spending. of course, November is just around the corner.
Guitar Granny: Rudy, the “hero” of 9/11 and son of a convicted felon who served time in Sing Sing, needs to be sitting in prison alongside his then police commissioner Bernie Kerik… Giuliani Myths … Rudy is one of the most despicable characters in New York (if not American) history.
Wow, Uruguay beat S. Korea — looks like we’re going to be playing them in the quarter finals. Go USA!
Be happy today (June 26) - especially at around 4:00 EST.
“When married, I couldn’t buy my kids new school shoes. Now I can buy shoes.” Ive read your post 5 times now, and reread Alma’s too, and still have no idea what that means?
very funny I dont know what it means either but it doesnt matter…
I do think what she is trying to say does matter….
I was making a point about a man that is all words and no action … hence the lack of decent shoes for his kids to start school with (that being the husband who needed to take the summers off) compared with BO’s needing more and more of my monies (and still jobs lacking for US) … I have little tolerance for BS at this point. Even as ‘slow’ as Bush was … he was on the job within days vs BO’s WEEKS. I’m sorry but BO has not convinced me of his being good for the US … he is certainly not leading us to a better ‘togetherness’ … yes, I agree it is good for ‘all color children’ to see a black man in Presidency … however if he can’t produce the cleanup etc he promised, how much good is that going to be ?? it is time to ‘Walk the Walk’ and I shall pray that he can get it together.
Obama cut taxes for over 90% of the public. The only proposed tax increase is for persons making $250,000 or more. If you make that I don’t think there’s any need to worry about shoes and maybe you could buy some shoes for other kids who need them.
I’m trying to be able to buy shoes for my grand children and I do contribute time and money to my community .. thank you.
Dont you just love when the liberal theft tell you how you are supposed to spend your own hard earned money……………….
Oh, OK. Now I see. But I think you are rewriting history here. Bush did take weeks to handle Katrina, given that he was advised to get moving at least 4 days before it hit, and people were still living in trailers and the 4th Ward was a mess when he left the presidency. And Obama did not take weeks to move on the oil spill. He only took weeks to publicize in the media as to what he was doing. Did he do things correctly? Efficiently? Fast enough? Those are all valid arguments. But did he delay getting to work on the problem? No, the facts do not support that.
As for more money. part of the original stimulus money went back in your pocket (unless you earn a lot). Part of it did help to increase jobs. It still is. My husband’s company depends on the health of a part of the construction industry and business dropped 60% before the stimulus package came out. It’s been picking back up steadily because the projects, backed by stimulus money, are reaching the construction stage and my husband’s clients are able to rehire. Previous administration dug a very deep hole. No one can get us out of it overnight.
This president has disappointed me in some areas as well. But on the oil spill, I think he’s getting a bad rap. It’s an unprecedented problem, his opponents are spinning like crazy, he’s received misinformation and false promises from BP, and it’s mired in private corporation vs government jurisdiction and responsibility. Untread ground. Find out what he’s actually been doing since this crisis started and then criticize those actions. But don’t say he wasn’t acting on it from the start. It’s simply not true.
I also voted for our talk the talk president and I do not find that he has walked the walk. He is surely in the pockets of big coorporations and es big oil. He has had many chances over the year to show us the stuff he promised but I see the same..Health Care what a joke…More money for the insurance companies….I think the war he has continued to make bigger and bloodier is my biggest disapointment. Anyone who is willy neely killing inocent people is just a murderer. War is only more money for the coorporations and that is the bottom line. Anyone who feels their is a need for war in the 21st century should know this makes you a murderer by proxy. I will say that McCain would have been much worse. I am happy for the black people because this shows the children that they have a chance in this country if they are lucky. So there are a couple of good things about him winning…
I also voted for our talk the talk president and I do not find that he has walked the walk. He is surely in the pockets of big coorporations and es big oil. He has had many chances over the year to show us the stuff he promised but I see the same..Health Care what a joke…More money for the insurance companies….I think the war he has continued to make bigger and bloodier is my biggest disapointment. Anyone who is willy neely killing inocent people is just a murderer. War is only more money for the coorporations and that is the bottom line. Anyone who feels their is a need for war in the 21st century should know this makes you a murderer by proxy. I will say that McCain would have been much worse. I am happy for the black people because this shows the children that they have a chance in this country if they are lucky. So there are a couple of good things about him winning…
Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush, Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush, Betty Ford, Rosalind Carter and especially Jackie Kennedy – they all spent equally or more on their offices and helpers. The First Ladies are all expected to set up offices and have paid staff. I think Nancy Reagan and Jackie Kennedy may have spent the most on redoing everything and many areas of the White House.
First Ladies generally pick an area of concern and work on that area during their husbands term. Michelle Obama’s area of concern and work is on behalf of military families and in dealing with obesity in children in America.
1 and 2 staff members vs over 24 staffers @ how much per year … baloney! Apparently this ‘good looking’ couple knows how to spend money … how about getting real ?
I am real – Nancy Reagan and Jackie Kennedy were the biggest spenders. I am real.
Again, what is your source? And a generalized reference to them being “spenders” isn’t clear on what they spent money????? Help us here with either providing more information on the sources of your statement or the specifics you are referencing.
As I recall, Jackie Kennedy did spend money on updating/modernizing the white house as in maintaining the infrastructure. Is that what you are talking about? I also seem to recall that Nany R did as well, but that she raised the money through philanthropic donations…NOT thru taxpayer funds.
I dont view investing in maintaining the real estate values of the White House the same (particularly as Nancy R did so othrough private fund raising not thru taxpayer dollars) as I view MO creating her only little fiefdom in the First Lady’s suite on taxpayer dollar.
And what’s your proof?? I lived the history just like you did we just looked at it differently and recall it differently. Michelle Obama is working on projects that are major to this country – helping make things better for Military Families and childhood obesity. There’s no fiefdom by Michelle Obama and she is doing what first ladies are supposed to do. Nancy Reagan didn’t just use private funds. The woman redecorated to the hilt. You just want to single out this first lady – same as this president. Admit it – you just don’t like them – especially because of how they look to you – not your typical white folks in the White House.
What is my proof about what? That Nancy R used privately raised philantrhopic funds when she modernized the white house? Welll known, well documented, widely reported facts. Do a literature search on the topic and you’ll find plenty of reference to it. I do recall the uproar over the cost of replacing china quite expensively, and likely that public backlash is why the White House refurishing was done with private donations–to avoid a repeat. What is my proof that MO has the largest staff for the First lady in history? FACT.CHECK. org.
I fully admit I did not vote for BO and I will not vote for him for a second term either. As far as an allegation its because they don’t look like me……..then perhaps you’ve missed my posts about WHY it is Lilly. its his policies and his deceit and his behavior. Not about his race. Why is it that every criticism of BO ends with his defenders claiming that his deteractors are racist? Is it because they assume others also voted on the basis of race–not policies or positions– because thats what they did (making them the racist, and hence they are psychologically projecting to others)? Is it because they can’t successfully defend him on the basis of his policies so the switch tactics to something emotionally tinged and generally impossible to prove, so as to avoid the real issues?
By the way: The expense associated “redecoration” of the White House is a level playing field by law. Congress provides $100,000 every four years to redecorate White House rooms used for the first family’s private residence. Supplemental funds may be provided by private funds from philanthropic donors, or by the first family themselves. The controversial $200,000 china in the Reagan era came from private donors, I believe the Knapp Foundation contributed to it.
So as far a spending money–anything in addition to the $100K is done from private money, so unless its your money, it really isn’t any of your business and it ISNT on the taxpayer dime. Unlike the staff support of the office of the First Lady, which is indeed on the public dime. And MO so far is the big spender in that particular comparison.
Not true, Lilly. Do you have any proof or a link that says this. I looked on FACTCHECK.ORG and they stated that MO does indeed have the largest staff of First lady history. Her current staff is 24.
Fact Check . Org also stated that Hillary Cs staff was 19 and Laura B was 18.
Do you care to site your source for your information?
yOU KNOW what I was really just being sarcastic I don’t iconcern myself with these arguments over poliltics and religion and get all bent out of shape over either because no matter what there is always going to be people that are critical of the next. He is a cute guy and she is an awesome woman and that is it. People who are not comfortable with who they are find reasons to point out the faults of others. In the end I have food on my table, a roof over my head and Barack Oabam does not even know that I exist. It is what it is, we all have a job to do. I do the best at what I have to do with my job and I am sure there is someone who feels they can do it better but guess what they are not the one that have it. Ha ha! With that said I am done, these women or men can argue all day, I got a life. This is just a fun little past time for me.
One of our scientist who has been working over 90 plus hours each week is here I am going to spend my time wisely and learn a few things from him.
well I’m glad you are done, so am I … but I wasn’t doing it for a ‘fun little past time’ and I notice that you were apparently doing it during your work time since you were able to sign off and go to ‘spend your time more wisely’
enough said … that is indicative of what I find wrong ~
Appreciate that you are here in seriousness and not for sport.
I don’t believe you have enough information to assume Alma is using her work time to be on VN. Maybe she is and maybe she isn’t. But she didn’t say that. Many don’t have 9 to 5 jobs. And many do, but are exempt and and are required to work overtime. For all we know, she’s already put in a good 50 this week and is taking a break before she works another 20.
This presideny needs to get a good kick in the butt for his lies and his wars and his BS. Yes bad mouth him jand make him responsible for doing what he says he will do He yake and yaks and yaks like a duck. I voted for him and I intend to make him keep his promises. You should find out what he is doing in this war and jif you agree you need some soul….
During the campaign President Obama was very clear that he would move the focus of the war on terror to Afghanistan. That’s exactly what he did and continues to do. He promised this during his campaign and he followed thru on his promise. He was very clear that he would shift the troops to Afghanistan. He was not an antiwar candidate and he’s not an antiwar president. He has said that he hopes to draw down the troops within a certain time frame. But as far as I can tell he is doing exactly as promised during the campaign.