The other day while tidying up, I happened to find a bag from a major department store in my bedroom. We’d been buying things for our son’s dorm room, and figured that’s what it was. Imagine the shock when inside there was a black teddy with matching thong, black panyhose, black thigh high stockings, a leopard printed sleeveless dress, and a blouse. The thing is, they’re NOT mine. They’re my husband’s! He actually wore the teddy that night. Part of me says not to worry about it since he’s never worn anything like that out of the house (that I know of) but part of me is in complete shock. He said he likes the feel of the fabrics and that’s all. Our relationship is average-not horrible but not great but we get along well. Experimentation? Mid life crisis? Victoria’s Secret gift card for Christmas? I don’t know what to think.
| What the bleep??? | Hot Conversation |
July 08, 2012
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Permalink: http://www.vibrantnation.com/family-relationships/what-the-bleep/
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Shirley - that's funny but what you are saying is true about the men...first sex, then a little company, then back to the dating sites. :) There are too many fish on line to stick with just one so they go back to see what else is available. I am a me
You're upset.... Well, your son is an adult, and knows perfectly well what happens when you have unprotected sex. The consequences are, that he has a child on the way, and you are going to be a grandmother.
I suggest that you stuff your anger, 
Oh good lord…..this could be a deal breaker for me. But that’s me. I don’t think I could deal with this. I have no advice…..please keep us posted.
It is difficult to deal with, especially since he’s not telling me how long he’s been into this. I’ve suggested that he try wearing silk boxers, as from what I understand lots of men find them very comfortable and also like how they feel. He said he’d try them, but who knows if he’d dispense with the other stuff.
I know this is my default answer (and I’m really have no vested interest in drumming up business for anyone) but …find yourself a good counselor! Obviously you’re having trouble communicating. Even if he won’t go – at least at first, you might get some thoughts on how to open a conversation that is going to go somewhere.
Meanwhile, I feel for you.
I dated a guy for 3 years and 6 months into the relationship he told me he liked wearing silky things. I didn’t run and didn’t judge because we had a great relationship up to that point. We had a ton of fun with the cross dressing, we laughed alot, our sex life went through the roof. I accepted him completely. So don’t run and don’t judge. Believe me ladies when I tell you there are a lot of them out there too afraid to tell their wives…afraid of the stigma. I looked at it this way no one ever judged me when I wore my dad’s flannel shirts and preferred work boots over heels…I was just a tom boy. It’s too bad we let clothing define who a person is…he is still the man you loved he now needs your acceptance.
…oh one more thing…this does NOT mean he is gay.
I am seeing a therapist, but he refuses to go. He was raised to believe it is a sign of weakness and he still feels that way. I am trying very hard not to judge and am struggling with this. It does nothing to endear him to me that he possesses close to 150 pornographic DVDs. He has known for years that I do not like having that type of thing in our house and that my perception of it is that I am not what he wants or needs anymore. He has also viewed porn on the Internet with our grown children in the room and has been asked repeatedly by all three of us to view it privately. That works for a short time but it doesn’t last long. His answer is that it’s got nothing to do with me and all guys do it. He’s asked me to do things to him to purposely cause pain. This started sometime last year. I don’t like doing it, bit he pressures me. Then he wonders why we aren’t intimate anymore. He just doesn’t get it! He’s not the same person I married.
I am glad you are getting help. What I learned from my ex cross-dressing boyfriend (that I did not want to influence you with) was that these men tend to be very selfish and your husband not respecting the request to view porno in private just proves it to me again.
I am so sorry, but glad you are in therapy. He is disrespecting you and your marriage, and you will need to decide if you want to live that way.
And no, not “all guys do it.” That is just an excuse….the porn thing would be a deal breaker for me, especially around your children??!!
A good question to ask (which you probably know the answer)…what behavior(s) are you willing to change?
Last evening, I saw my therapist who thought that he’s left the clothing within relatively easy reach because he wanted me to find it. Maybe he thought nothing would be said, but how can you ignore something like that? The past few nights he’s told me not to touch him, or if he’s gone to bed before i have, he’s as far over on his side of it as possible. I’d sleep in our son’s room since he’s away, but we don’t have central air (our house is over 100 years old) and a fan doesn’t always afford much relief. He has repeatedly told me that if I’d “give in” more, he’d have no need for the porn. That still doesn’t explain the women’s clothing. My therapist said that it really does have nothing to do with me, and attempting to get him to change or to give it up won’t work. The issue is with him, not with me.
I just wanted to say that as the daughter of o m2f transgendered parent and also as the partner of a transgendered person people just ask for love. However, from what you have shared Linda there are a number of issues that may not at all be related.
Your husband says he cross-dresses -not really a problem in my mind – but can be challenging for others to wrap their heads around;
Your husband watches porn and at times in public – that is a different issue and the fact that others have complained and asked him to cease doing and to have those requests ignored is just rude and selfish and totally unrelated to cross dressing, in my view. If my partner ignored a reasonable request of mine I would say she is being rude not attribute this behaviour to being transgendered.
Your sex life sounds fairly well non existent and by the sounds of things you have expressed justifications for the status quo. In my opinion, I’d rather be alone and happy than be in a long term relationship that kills me a little bit more each day.
Hope you find the answers you seek and the solace you deserve.
Gosh, I can tell how painful and difficult this is for you.
For many, many years in my 20′s and early 30′s, I worked with and for artists and entertainers and believe me, it was absolutely no surprise to hear a similar story. So, in that community, it was the “norm.” I’m not talking about hurtful, damaging or cruel behavior here. I’m simply saying that folks often pushed the boundaries beyond convention (if there even is a convention) and, honestly, it was not a big deal.
My point is you and only you can decide where you fall in this spectrum. Your therapist can help but reaching out to the VN community (or sort of going “public”) might mean that you are searching for reassurance that it’s not totally off the wall.
It’s not totally off the wall.
There are many variations of “pleasure” and the porn industry wouldn’t be so revenue generating if that were not true. To ask you to not judge, or to give it some time to sink in and adjust may be asking too much and I completely understand.
But now you have this information about your husband. And like any new information, you have to process it and see where YOU stand.
Relationships are LONG these days and the world is filled, filled, filled with people pursuing what they feel they need to pursue to comfort – and even excite – themselves. Like any relationship (marriage, friendship, children, etc.) bombs drop. If you have been fortunate to not have that happen in your life, fantastic. But heck, how many women can say that?
Just sit with this and take it one step at a time. I think your biggest challenge will be to speak your truth at all times. Even when that truth changes-as it will as you process all of this.
I know how shocking this must be. It is a challenge to not judge rather to stay in touch with your own feelings and reactions.
Hang in there!
Linda – It is absolutely not your fault or your lack of “giving in”. Sex between spouses is not about “giving in”. It IS about communication, compromise, and honoring each other – he is missing the point.
Why on earth do I expect change, or rather, keep hoping for it?
The other day, I decided to use our new vacuum, thinking it would be nice to have clean, fresh carpets. Following the instructions on the machine, it was very carefully emptied, but there was a problem reattaching the dust bin to the machine.
Yesterday morning, with our schedules cleared for the day, my husband and I embarked on a parent orientation at the college our son will be attending. I happened to mention to him that there was a problem reattaching the bin & he flipped out, cursing, saying that my timing stinks, I was causing him stress, and that it was broken. Knowing the orientation was important, I had to go. For about half of the time it took us to drive there, I was in tears. Eventually, he began to talk to me about general topics and began to act like nothing happened.
When we stopped for dinner, I told him that the way he treated me was unacceptable and that he should enter a program for anger management. He tried, as always, to give the same excuses as yesterday- the timing, etc.
Today, he was trying to program a new cell phone purchased for our son & said he would smash it because it was frustrating the hell out of him & causing him stress. Instead of giving it up & taking it to an authorized dealer after a couple of attempts to program it, he wasted close to two hours. We had made plans to have a nice evening out, but that soon disappeared. Instead, we had a quick dinner at a local restaurant, stopped at Starbucks where couldn’t even relax & enjoy my beverage, all because he was going out with the guys (yet again). This isn’t the first time our plans have been pushed aside for plans with the guys.
He’s got a wicked temper, and on several occasions, either my daughter or I have had to flee the house. He then either acts like nothing’s happened, or he yells at us for leaving. What else are we supposed to do when he’s carrying on like a maniac? He’s told me, when cooler heads prevail, that I should tell him to stop, but at that point, he is way beyond reasoning and doesn’t listen anyway, because it’s been tried. He tells me, to put it politely, to stay out of it, shut up, or whatever else comes into his mind.
The atmosphere changes most times immediately upon his walking in to the house. Again, that’s blamed on us.
He’s pushed me away in practically every way he can, yet he blames me for pushing him away. Un-be-freaking-lievable.
Honey I fear for you!
You do understand it isn’t you, right? And while that may be small consolation, you can’t “fix” it…ever.
Please put your children first in this situation. What happens now is going to affect them for the rest of their lives.
This is a conflicted man. Don’t wait for the tipping point because it isn’t going to tip in your favor. Sometimes you do need to surrender. You said it yourself. He is pushing you away in practically every way he can.
You are absolutely right. I do need to surrender, raise the white flag, and give up. He’s had choices to make and I lost. It’s not my job, duty, or responsibility to try to “fix” him or the situation, especially because he feels there’s nothing to fix.
It’s only going to get worse because now one of his best friends has a daughter who is going to attend the same university that my son will be attending. Additionally, my husband was instrumental in getting the same friend a job where he works.
My daughter still lives at home, is engaged, and tries to spend as much time away from home as possible.
I have been attempting to understand what cannot be understood, fix what cannot be fixed, and to hold together what cannot be held together.
My own college classes begin again next month. All I can do is concentrate on them, on landing a decent job (hopefully) and putting this part of my life behind me.
The relationship has ended in all but the legal realm.
I have a cousin who was a secret cross-dresser. He was married with 2 children and told his wife shortly after they were married. He did it when all had gone to sleep and none of them ever saw him dressed as a woman. When his kids were grown he told them and then some time later ‘came out’. For quite some time prior to going ‘public’, his temper grew worse and worse…he and his wife were no longer having any intimacy and he was more and more angry and unhappy. He said he had always felt like a woman and initially thought something was wrong with him and tried to repress it. He finally did go to therapy. It was then that he decided that he would have a sex-change operation.
No one in the family understands why his wife stuck with him all this time (35 years), but she did, through what I consider emotionally abusive behaviour, not so much because of his cross-dressing, but his verbal abuse. It took 3 years of hormone therapy, counselling and finally the operation. They are still together and have become best friends and appear to be quite happy now. He now treats her with great respect and tells everyone what an amazing person she is. I do not know if they are sexually intimate.
Needles to say, his children and parents are having quite a difficult time dealing with it and now his anger is directed to them somewhat. I believe he is really angry with himself, as are most people who lash out at others.
So, it is totally not your fault and only you can decide how much you are willing to bear. And don’t let anyone judge you for whatever decision you make.
Good luck. This is tough.
What I hear is that you have tolerated for a long time (porno) what was unacceptable. Take care of yourself.
Bless you. Seems VNers have been helpful.
The anger issues make the cross dressing stuff irrelevant.
Keep a calm head, if you can.
Stay safe.
Don’t put yourself in compromising positions or alone with him.
It’s clear that your presence is enough to set him off.
It’s good that you’re enrolled in classes.
Stay focussed in moving forward and stay as happy as possible.
You can still thrive in the face of this and you can provide him with other choices to make (love, kindness, understanding), if he’s paying attention. If not, that’s his bad.
This too will pass.
All the best.
Thanks to all of you for your kind ness and concern. Last night, I tried having a discussion with my husband. Notice I said tried. It quickly became a blame fest…long story short, I can do nothing right.
Try this for the ultimate in not caring about your spouse- last Labor Day weekend, I had an excruciating gallbladder attack. My husband and I were to have attended a barbeque, but I wasn’t feeling well. Luckily, our daughter was home and drove me to the ER. After performing an ultrasound, I was diagnosed with gallstones. In the meantime, my husband had gone to the barbeque, and. It was quite a while after my daughter called him to say I would be admitted that he even showed up at the hospital.
The next day, I had the gallstones removed. As a result of having had ten of them, I developed pancreatitis. I was hospitalized for two weeks. He told me to let him know when I would be released and he’d make sure to let his boss know so he could take me home. He denied later ever having said that. I ended up taking a taxi home.
On the first Friday in October, I had my gallbladder removed. My husband stayed with me for a while before surgery then went home. He came back before I was awake, in hopes of taking me home that same day. That would have been the case had I not become severely nauseated with copious vomiting until the anesthesia was finally out of my system,some hours later. I was kept overnight.
The following day, I had called my sister-in-law to ask if she could possibly pick me up. My husband was not available. Why? He took our son on two college tours, both campuses being about 90 minutes away. College tours that could have been rescheduled. The day after having had surgery, I was left on my own to get home. My sister -in-law was I’ll and couldn’t take me home. My daughter had a friend’s wedding to attend. Once again,I took a taxi home. Or son, although 17 at the time, didn’t drive and still doesn’t.
When my husband had dizziness with vomiting last month, I drove him to our family doctor, where her diagnosis was vertigo and dehydration. She told us he needed to go to the ER. I drove him there,stayed the few hours new as there with him, drove him home,and went back out to pick up meds. I thought of leaving himat the hospital and letting him get himself home, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
But according to him, I do everything wrong. What a piece of work.
Hello!
I think I speak for everyone who has posted when I say that we can feel the pain and sadness in your words. Clearly you need to tell your story – if for no other reason than to hear your own words and to confirm that they are true.
Sharing is one thing and action is another. You and your husband are adults and your relationship with each other is an “adult relationship” that is still within your control to keep or dissolve.
But here is the thing: Your children don’t have that option. You will always be the mother and your husband is the father – regardless of how you treat each other.
They have to go on and figure out what is appropriate behavior in a relationship based upon what they saw happen in their home.
And – by your own admission – it isn’t a pretty picture.
Please focus on your son and daughter. Don’t let this be the legacy. And by that I mean stop identifying with your husband’s labels for you and demonstrate to your children that you have the ability to not be victimized by an obviously unhappy spouse.
It doesn’t negate your whole marriage. People change. Sometimes not for the better. It takes courage to say, “You know, I simply want more from my spouse.”
They need to see you do that. Find the strength to pull yourself up. You don’t have to resolve your differences with your husband first.
I wish you the happiness that you deserve.
Marriage is like a deck of cards, In the beginning you need two hearts and a diamond, in the end you need a club and a spade.
I lurked a long time, watching comments on here.
Now, I gotta give my thoughts.
You see, I married a crossdresser.
The problem is, he didn’t tell me he was one until we had been married nearly 15 years, and had two kids. He didn’t tell me until his anger about hiding this, and his dishonesty with me resulted in misplaced anger toward me and our two young sons. Until he denied that he had a secret life in marriage counseling, and said I was paranoid and delusional. Until he had spent a fortune in clothing and “equipment” on ebay, and at various stores (He took out cash at ATMS all over the country and in 2004 I thought he was having an affair). His job gave him a lot of time on the road, away from me, and I traveled for work also, which gave him the time to dress in secret.
His confession, in 2008 after I asked him to move out, was a 30 page bio that basically was all about HIM and HIS NEEDS and how he felt like he was a freak. How this had been a part of him since he was quite young. He started borrowing his mom’s stuff when he was 13. How I needed to SUPPORT him as this wasn’t his CHOICE.
Here’s the thing. Had I known when we were dating, I would not have married him. You see, after the confessional, in which he gave me visuals on things he dressed in, in public, (and resulted in ZERO physical attractiveness to me) he asked me to be a part of it with him. We take the same size shoes, and as it turned out he was buying those for himself as well as for me.
The most damaging part of all this was the deceit. The anger. The fact that he was blind to how it was destroying our marriage (after all, I was the one with issues) and how it was destroying our sons as well. My now ex is a yeller. That does not help. And he’s still VERY VERY angry about this.
When it came down to it, he is a little boy, it is always about him, he’s selfish as hell. And he won’t change. Your husband sounds the same. (Same Koolaid?)
He is remarried. I am SURE she does’t know. I dont’ know if he still dresses – though my thought is no, as he gains weight/eats instead of dressing and right now he’s at his heaviest. He told me right before our divorce was final, that a shrink he saw in secret (if his work found out he could be fired) said it was just a controllable fetish. I don’t buy it. He’s angry as hell. He cannot control it.
Our kids will never know as they are quite small.
I feel sorry for him, in that he is a flawed human being who really messed up. I forgive what he did, but cannot condone it. I was DYING in that marriage and always thought it was ME. That I wasn’t good enough for him. He’d take out clothing for me to wear and he was dressing ME in what he wanted to wear. He’d make snide comments about my body, my choices in clothing. That’s what damaged the marriage. It wasn’t the crossdressing per se.
So. Here I am, four years later. Remarried to a man with no secret life. Who loves me in sweats. Who has a long fuse, and is a great example to my boys of what a grown up man should be. But to get here: I was in counseling, I got SCREAMED AT and accused of all kinds of things, my ex was mean, nasty, and I was in a psychiatric hospital for a week while I tried to figure out what to do. It’s been a long road, and I am finding my way back to the ME I was before all this. The person I LIKE. And my boys are subject to him over summers and are starting to see what their dad’s priorties are (himself and his sexy new wife) on their own.
I wish you luck and laughter. I wish you peace and knowing it is not YOU. I wish you better things. And feel free to contact me directly.
I am tired of my husband blaming me for everything. His temper is not mine to control, it’s his. He shows warmth, compassion, cooperativeness, and charm with everyone outside of the family. With us, we’re just supposed to suck it up. Plans are made then broken or forgotten because “plans change”. If any one of us would attempt to do that to him, it would be like the end of the world.
His wants, needs, and desires come before anything or anyone else. In his eyes, we are the ones who have changed, not him.
It’s to the point where I am making lists of divorce lawyers/mediators who offer a free consultation. Mediation is a much better way to go since it’s faster, less costly, and usually eliminates the need to go to court, but knowing my husband, he’s likely to fight me tooth and nail about everything, thus making for a particularly ugly experience. This would especially be true if he would not agree to split.
I’m trying to hold on until I finish school, find a job and am able to support myself. The worst thing to do would be to leap and find myself in dire financial straits. Trying to hold on isn’t enough anymore. Even with seeing a therapist, it feels like I’m in a long, dark, lonely tunnell with no way out and no light at the end.
Oh this sounds familiar!!! Email me: macjenna at aol dot com.
Your experience sounds too familiar. It seems I’ve been running away to freedom most of my adult life. I’ve gotten though. I’ve learned to not stay too long when I’ve changed but the other person didn’t the situation got to be unbearable. I even went for counseling too. I made through and you will too.
You will have to set your limits (you know, your boundaries?), your priorities, whatever word or words you choose and then say you’ve had enough -ENOUGH IS ENOUGH – believe me — that’s when you will change your situation. You have to do it. Nobody can’t do it for you. You have to do it.
When you know better, you will do better.
We mediated. I knew I wanted out in 04 when I thought he was having an affair. I got a job in 2005 and waited untl I felt strong enought to be a single parent. My ex did the same things; charming to everyone BUT ME and his KIDS. Lashing out at stupid crap, embarrassing us at restaurants, over promising and under delivering. We mediated. Cost us $400. Oh wait cost me that. If he works and agrees on break up you could get alimony for a year or so. If you sell house you get half the proceeds and half his retirement: depends on the state tou reside in. He moved into the guest room before he moved out. Is that an option? There is a light at the tend and it’s the you that you want to be: stronger, happier, independent.
If he fights you all the money goes to lawyers and he can’t spend it on porn and clothing!
Been there! There is a light I promise!
Linda: I lived like that for 36 years and then I found the book which saved my life: The Verbally Abusive Relationship
by Patricia Evans.
All abusers are alike in that their anger has NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with their issues…anger management rarely works.
Abusers are excruciatingly insecure and passive aggressive. Most are narcissistic (literally stop maturing at about age 12-13). So, remember when hearing one of his rants….you are llistening to a child having a tantrum….and like a child having a tantrum, ignoring him is the best thing you can do, they are emotional vampires and need a constant “fix”–their fix? YOU responding to their crazy making behavior.
I am the moderator of an abused survivors’ group and would be glad to talk to you…..got a divorce after 36 years of verbal and physical abuse…excruciatingly the most scary thing I ever did.
wacalice at aol dot com
Hmmm – what’s to blame you for? He’s the one with secrets, anger issues, no connection, no respect for you and your/his kids, and a serious porn issue (btw porn is free – what’s with buying DVDs). Sounds like he has you wrapped around the axle and is walking all over your deal breakers so it may be time for some new deal breakers. Careful about moving the line too much though – you’re just showing him that there really isn’t a line…
@Alicia, sounds like you and I have a few things in common!Congrats on coming through the fire. I remember the day the temp dropped for me, was the day I filed (we mediated. He was TERRIFIED I would tell his family and still is, so I have a nuclear option). I still have to “deal” with him, as we have two kids under 15, but we don’t live in the same state!
Narcissistic, it’s about him. He argues with our sons like he is their peer, not a parent. He puts down a rule and it lasts maybe a week. He’s horrible with money. Always has been. Blew through $100K in HELOCS while married to me, and $130K in his 401K after we split (in 18 months). I liken him to a 3 year old having a melt down in Walmart. So embarrassing when it’s a grown up.
Emotional abuse is the WORST because you think you are at fault and there is something wrong with YOU. It chips away at the love, the trust til it’s gone. Thank goodness I had supportive family and friends.
Yes, verbal (emotional) abuse is the worst….excep for 3 years in the army I lived that way (first as a child in a poverty-stricken home—no car, refrigerator, phone, bathtub or shower, 120-year old tenement house with cockroaches and rats (they came extra, LOL), snow came in thru a crack in the wall, never knew my father (divorce); met him when I was 33 and molested.
I joined the army right out of high school and “married” the original abuser (mother) and tried to fix the past.
I had to struggle pretty much on my own to make the decision (and drove myself crazy in the process)..
Yes, the narcissists are literally children in adult bodies…….having temper tantrums and as we do with children, ignore them.