Let’s see if writing this out helps me put it in perspective.
I have been dating D for the last 4 years. 2 years ago he sold his home across the country, sold or gave away most of his stuff and came and lived with me. Due to his job we have a rather erratic schedule with him being out of town at least half of every week and sometimes for weeks at a time. Then we can have months of being together. We seem to do fine either way. When he’s gone, we talk everyday. When he’s home we have fun and are relaxed together. Because of his schedule he hasn’t really integrated into my community, but we spend lots of time with my friends. He does miss his old friends who were very different from mine. My friends are older (I’m older than him by 5 years and most of my friends are older than I am) and my friends are a fairly intellectual bunch. His friends were younger than him and a group who liked to go to sporting events and to party. But he seems to be doing OK with this.
Here’s the problem – logical or not, I want to get married. (I was married for 28 years, he has never been married). He’s not ready, and not very good at explaining why, though it seems to come down to having a fear of divorce ( a few bad break ups in his history) and a fear of the responsibility of my grown children (who are doing just fine and make no financial and few emotional demands on me) and the responsibility of my mother who is financially quite well off and is reasonably healthy ( he has no children. Both of his parents are alive, healthy and again quite well off) On the other hand, he is quick to jump in to be supportive of my kids and mother . For example, when the daughter who is in graduate school needed a new computer he was quick to tell me we could help (I told him that this wasn’t an emergency and I thought she would figure it out herself – she did).
With his emotional and financial support I just retired. My pension is just a bit short of what I need each month and he is willingly and eagerly taking over many of the bills for the house (which I own). He repeatedly tells me not to worry about money, even if I never make another penny.
He sounds like a prince and he is. But with my not earning enough to support myself I am feeling very vunerable. I feel guilty taking money from a man who is not my legal husband and I’m terrified of what would happen if he should die. As of now, his parents are the beneficiaries on his IRAs. For some reason (well, I know the reasons – a brother who borrowed money and then declared bankruptcy leaving my guy in the hole and a long ago ex girlfriend whom he supported and then she ran off with another man), anyways, for some reason he hasn’t made arrangements to secure my financial future by writing me into his will. My kids are my beneficiaries though I have left a little money to him. Truth is he has twice as much as I do and plans on working for another 10 years.
I’m feeling a bit frustrated and a bit stuck and sometimes a bit angry. At 51 isn’t it time for him to step up to responsibility? To face his fears of divorce? To abandon some of the self-centeredness of being a bachelor? His committment to me is generally unquestionable, but his inability to clean up some of these legalities, or to talk about them, is driving a wedge between us – because I’m letting it.
Well, I can’t say that I learned anything from writing, how ’bout some thoughts from the sisterhood.
Yes I get that you meant in the work place, not dating. But the original poster did use the example of Julia Roberts getting what she wants from a man by using her femininity. I don't see that as strong. As you know she was a hooker? This comparison 
Tried therapy? That could help.
We’ve discussed that and it is certainly an option we may pursue. Thanks for the reminder.
Joyful,
As many have pointed out, marriage does not equal commitment. I have a male friend in his mid-50s who has been divorced 3 times and is engaged to get married for the 4th time. He’s not afraid to “commit” to marriage- but he does not do a great job of committing to the relationship (trust me, I have known him throughout all of his marriages). Marriage does not equal financial security either, since he would be entering with assets that would not become yours if he dies, unless he chooses to leave them to you, which he could do even if you are not married. What I do see marriage providing, financially, is the ability for you to collect on his social security if he dies before you, rather than your own, and maybe his would be much more than yours. It also would allow you to be covered now by his health insurance, which you may not have right now, since you quit work, or you may be paying for at an exorbitant price, if you are self-insured. Since you are 9 years away from Medicare, this could be a big consideration for you.
Since he is only 51, I find the question of what happens if he dies a little suspect (although yes, of course, he could die anytime, as could you). I wonder if you are most concerned as to whether he is as committed to you and the relationship as you are to him. With his absences, and the fact that his friends are younger and like to party, and the two of you do not socialize with his friends, perhaps you are concerned that when he is not with you, he is still living the lifestyle of a single man. And the truth is, there is a good chance he is doing so. Maybe, or even probably, not to the extent of being intimate with another woman. However, I can imagine that he likes to sometimes have the lifestyle of the relationship with you, but sometimes still wants to have the lifestyle that he has enjoyed all of his adult life. If he were to marry you, he might feel he isn’t allowed to live sometimes as a bachelor. I know I am just theorizing here, but I think this might be the issue, and you are afraid to really confront it.
And for those who would think such a guy is a jerk, I think Cynthia 85014 says it well: ”Not wanting to be married is not a sign of immaturity – again with the programming! It’s a choice. Marriage is not always the path, and it rarely works out. Perhaps it is a sign of incredible maturity to know yourself, what you want, and not to bend to others’ opinions about it.”
Joyful, as other posters have said- Decide what you want. Ask him what it is he really wants in life, in your relationship and outside of it. If the two things are incompatible, then, as nice as he has been, move on to what you really desire.
svegas has given the perfect answer for you and your dilemma. I am 68 and have been in a fantastic relationship with the most wonderful man for 6 years and he is 47. No plans for marriage. Enjoying every moment we have together. Marriage does not guarantee anything. My present man is more of a husband to me than the first two ever were. Be grateful for the relationship you have with this wonderful man and enjoy every moment.
Emma, you are lucky for now but not for the long run. Wake up and smell the roses. I hope it works for you but I can practically guarantee it won’t. It is in the statistics, and it is life. Men are noted for taking advantage because most of the time they have nothing to lose, and the sad truth is that they do not commit emotionally like we do when in a sexual relationship.
I am married 37 years to man who has values, both religious and family, and he still tries to control me and wants me to stay in an unhappy union. He lies to himself on a regular basis and I can’t fix him. Anything you can do that works, God bless you. It is all hard, very hard. Good luck.
Good for you! All we have is the present, that’s where we live. Enjoy life!
I said the boy friend was immature because he refuses to talk about what’s important to his partner -
Run the other way as fast as you can. Life is hard enough without total commitment. This man is rolling along because you are letting him, he may or may not be in your life for the near future. You are a fool, and you are going to get hurt, emotionally and financially. What is wrong with you that you don’t have enough self-respect to cut off a relationship with no real commitment?
You are needy. You are hoping for future benefits both in partner commitment and in financial commitment. He is just along for the ride as long as he doesn’t have to commit. This is a recipe for disaster for you.
Wake up and depend upon yourself. You are way more dependable than he is. Rely on the backup you know is reliable. Why are we women so stupid?
I hope that you take my advice, because I know too many women your age in the exact same place. Why are we so needy that we depend on things that are not backed up by legal and financial securities? You give everything emotionally and financially for a little regular monetary supplement. Man, does he have a good situation. He gave up nothing, don’t kid yourself.
Here’s hoping you see the light.
This was not helpful. With very little information about either one of us you made a lot of judgements and they are very far off the mark. I appreciate that your experiences may be different than mine and I love to hear your stories, but without knowing more it is not helpful to make such accusations.
Hello,
Based on your feelings of anger and resentment on unmet needs, I think you should approach the subject with him. While telling him your feelings, I would try to be careful not to criticize him for his. You do need to know what his intentions are in the relationship and he needs to know your expectations. He sounds like a great guy. Maybe your “talk” will spur him on toward making the commitment you seek. If it doesn’t, then, you’ll have to decide if status quo with him is good enough. I say, pray about it, then, have the talk.:)
I love that you said that I should not criticize him for having his feelings. How right you are. In this relationship there has to be room for us to have our own feelings even when they don’t quite align. Thanks for reminding me of this.
If you don’t feel secure in the relationship without a financial commitment, i.e. something in writing (which you shouldn’t) I agree that you should continue to live as though you are self-supporting and go back to work. If he objects, be honest with him about your need for financial security. If you need his financial support to make it with your current financial circumstances, you might want to consider taking in a tenant if he dies. Have you considered asking if he could contribute to a life insurance policy naming you as beneficiary to provide for you? Some sign of financial responsibility towards you seems to be necessary. I don’t agree with expecting common-law parents to commit to your well-being, especially with nothing in writing, and like you said, if you separate the relationship is over, including the financial support.
Thanks for some concrete and thoughtful suggestions. As I write and respond to most of the posts I am reminded again and again how far he and I have come since our earliest days. I know that a year from now things will somehow be different – we will have come to some new understandings of each other, whether or not something changes in a more visible manner or not.
So you are dealing with financial insecurity due to your new position, and you would like to be married although he won’t discuss it.
You’re four years into the relationship, but you have so many years to go….I’d work on the financial issue first. As a teacher, you have options for additional income within your field as tutor or substitute teacher or some other field. I’d hit that one first b/c that anxiety can only complicate the relationship stuff.
I like being married. We were ‘married’ before we made it legal – committed, living together, me being stepmom, etc. But getting married added a layer of … bedrock, I guess, though I’d have said before that we were solid before. I don’t know if it is the willingness to take on that legal responsibility – we were both responsible, both fully committed before – or what, but we both felt it. We knew a certificate didn’t make us love each other more or more deeply, etc. But we looked at each other and asked, “What’s changed????” Because nothing really had, and yet nothing was the same. I don’t know what your experience of ‘being married’ was, but I recognize that it is powerful indeed. *s*
Till he’s ready to marry, if ever, I’d work on becoming financially stable so that you are not dependent on his income. I’d also drop the subject, if it has been a topic of attempted discussion, and enjoy my sweetie. I hope a year from now finds you utterly delighted with your life.
Oh Jean, you so get it! The financial stuff is slowly working its way through. I’m exploring options for different things and it will be fine (It helps that the Dow has been going up and I see my portfolio gaining and not losing)
On the relationship issue you really get it. You get that he is committed and not using me. I too believe that something will change and my frustration with him (at times) is that his fear is holding us back. BUT you are right – we are only four years into this (and for nearly two of those we were living on opposite sides of the country) and there are so many more to go. Patience, patience, patience I tell myself. You would think that as a former kindergarten teacher patience would be my middle name. I have faith (though not the religious kind) that things are going to eventually reach a happy equilibrium. I mean, I just came home from a week away with my mother and was greeted with roses and a card that said “I miss you.” How special is that?
I hope you didn’t think my reflecting on living as though you were “single” as meaning relationally single. I meant financially. I totally validate your relationship and encourage you to continue in it.
Oh no bluejean – I knew exactly what you meant and it is good advice. That’s what I had been doing. ”Retirement” has sent me into a temporary tailspin, but only for a bit while I figure out my new budget, figure out what I can earn and how I can earn it. My financial dependency is definitely short term. I have the years from 65 on all figured out. Its the next nine that have me a bit uncertain. I know – this puts me in a different situation than most.
It is special indeed! It’s nice to be loved…
What struck me as odd immediately was that he sold his home, sold or gave away most of his things and moved in with you. He is gone a lot meaning he still has YOUR roof over his head when he returns and none of the responsibility.
I, too, was once involved with a younger man who took advantage of my kindness. We met at work, dated a while, and when he was laid off, he asked if he could live with me until he found work. I allowed it while he had no means of offering any support. I loaned him money. When I found a new job out of state and in his home town, he decided to move “back home” with me. I had leased an apartment, short-term, while I became settled and searched for a house. He asked if he could stay one night at my apartment when I was moving in. That turned into five months on my couch. When I tried to get him to leave, he threatened to go to the management and have me evicted since he was not listed on the lease as a tenent. I found a home and closed while I was still in the apartment just so I could get rid of him. He asked if he could live in my house, NO! At one point he offered to help me paint and when he never showed up, his reply was “he didn’t owe me anything.”
After a couple years, I chose to move out of state to be closer to my adult children. He did continue to pay me a monthly amount on the money I had loaned him. Then, when I was having diffculty finding full time employment, he suggested I return to where he lived as jobs were better there and we could get an apartment together. Now, understand, this is a 49 year old man, never married, and living at his parent’s home. So, you see his reasoning. After six years, he finally paid off all the money he owed me. He continued to call, text, email, while I distanced myself. Finally, a text came asking if I had just been nice until he paid off the loan. I took a few days to answer and I laid it all out and in the end told him “I had been too nice since the day we met.” I wished him well. . .good bye. I blocked his number, his email address. It’s done and I feel relieved. It was a lesson I shall never repeat.
We get what we allow. . .be wise, be careful.
As I was getting ready for work this morning, I remembered a quote I have posted on my frig. . .”Never make someone a priority who only makes you an option.”
Although every situation is different, and ultimately you have to make the decision that works for you, Kash’s last four words of her post are most critical. ”Be wise, be careful”.
My story is that I met a man online who lived two hours away. We fell in love and dated each other long distance for two years. Everything seemed to be perfect. One weekend I would travel to see him, the other he would travel to see me. I had specifically mentioned in my online profile that I wanted to be married again and specifically asked that those who did not share this wish stay away, so he knew what I wanted in my life. There were no illusions.
When I look back, there were signs that I missed. Over the course of our relationship, our conversations about marriage went from “yes, I would like to get married again one day” to “let’s just let this happen naturally” to “I don’t know if I want to get married again” to “I’m not interested in being married again”. The latter statement being made after I changed jobs, left my (adult) children, sold my house and moved to his state – all of which he was encouraging. I moved into his house for three months until I could find my own house (his suggestion – that we would now date “normally” instead of long distance before we lived together permanently.) It seemed feasible. I really wanted marriage but was willing to “let it happen naturally” and thought his reasoning was sound. I bought a house that he helped me pick out that had an acre of land. I wasn’t crazy about the size of the house (very small) but the lot was outstanding. I was also concerned that the lot would be too much for me to handle on my own and I was quickly reassured that he would be there to help with whatever maintenance or landscaping I needed. He told me that this was a “temporary” home and that it was part of our “grand plan” to build a beautiful new timberframe home further north where we would both live. He gave me the details of him selling his beautiful home on a lake and moving in with me while our house was being built. We looked at plans. We looked at lots. We made the grand plan. I bought the little house on the big lot in July. At the end of August, we went to his daughter’s wedding where she honored me as she would honor her (deceased) mother. His family was my family. We got into a discussion about my “role”. Which led to a discussion about marriage. Which led to an argument. He was cold to me the rest of the night. He dumped me right after the wedding and only four months after my move. Me with a new home that was too much for a single 51 year old to manage, me with a new job (which at least was a very good job), me with no family or friends to come over and have a glass of wine and help me through this devastation that I felt. The rug was out from under me and there was nothing I could do but fall. And I fell hard for 2 more years – one of those years we actually tried to get back together but it really turned out that he was only interested in a companionship – not a commitment and I finally cut the cord forever.
The story ends well. Two years later, after dating a few frogs and as I was ending my online subscription and content to be single in my little house on the prairie, I got an email from the dating service about a possible “match”. I looked, he was perfect on paper, I winked, he emailed and July 11th of this year we celebrated our 4th wedding anniversary.
My advice is similar to someone else’s. Do not give up on what you want in your life. If he cannot provide your dreams, find someone who can. The person who is the total package could be 8 miles away and your perfect soulmate. Whatever you decide, I hope it all works out for the best and that you are happy. I am.
I am so glad things worked out well in the end. I have a secret passion for country music and there’s a line in a song that came to me as I read your story “God bless the twisted path that led me to you” ….or something like that. You brought a big smile to my face.
So right – don’t live on waiting, wishing and hoping. Life is now – and if your life is not what you want now, …
Reading your stories, wow. I’m glad I’m not single; it sounds scary. Of course, everyone is different and every life has its own course, but these are scary times in so many ways.
I’ve heard such horror stories of guys who really wanted to have everything they wanted and to give only what they felt like giving when they felt like giving it. That’s so dirty, and they always seem to find women who are generous and willing to give and to sacrifice for their loved ones.
I told my students and now my clients ‘Never settle. Know what you mast have, what is optional, and what is unacceptable (deal-breakers) and honor yourself.” What we want counts – **at least** as much as what our partner/hubs/significant other/children want. And if what we want **doesn’t count** as much as what they want, we’re teaching them the wrong lesson, imho.
Not all relationships end in marriage, and not all people want that anyway. What is important is to make sure that you are getting your must-haves. If you aren’t, then make sure that what you are getting is worth what you have to give to have it – and that you can be happy with just that. If not, that’s a major red flag.
I’ve been married twice and have now been single for 16 years. Life is definitely easier with a partner/mate. But the fiddler to pay is in emotional fare.
I don’t know if I ever want to remarry. There were multiple offers when I was in my 40′s. Wasn’t ready then. I had two male friends, one a confirmed bachelor and the other a divorcee from a long term marriage. When I went off to another city, BOTH of them got married. And both got divorced. The man I was engaged to in the late 70′s remarried a couple of years ago. His wife has left. There are a lot of broken hearts among my friends during that era. On the bright side, one of the girlfriends I had during that time married in her 30′s after having never done so. She and her husband are still together!
I don’t know if you want marriage for the romantic notion or the legal side. If it’s romance, there will always be something missing unless one or the other of you change your stance. If you’re willing to accept that state of affairs, problem solved. If it’s the legal/financial angle, there are other ways to secure your future. Is it that part he doesn’t want to discuss? Or the romance part?
As my friends showed, when a man who doesn’t want to marry finds that *someone*, he is suddenly ready. There is no guarantee in marriage. You don’t mention if you’re widowed or divorced. Did your ex provide anything for your long term security? Seems that would be his responsibility after such a long marriage.
I don’t have any advice. I definitely do not think he is *using* you. I don’t view men in that shallow way. There is no “us” vs. “them”. Very unhealthy thoughts, those are. I just wish you both the best in love and life.
I so agree with not believing in the “us vs them”. My belief is that there are good men and good women and unfortunately there are bad of both sexes too. I know this man is a keeper – not perfect, but a keeper. I know that I am getting enough of my needs met, even if it isn’t every single thing. Thanks for your words of support and encouragement.
hi, Joyful, wow, i can so relate to your post. and agree that some of the earlier posts were kind of harsh. and i often wonder what women are thinking, as they seem to pick the worst men to deal with and leave themselves hanging out to dry. but i, too, have a relationship – one of 20 years of fits and starts – where i’ve been living with a “great guy” – this time for 7 years – with no signs of marriage anywhere on the horizon, and no consolidation of our finances. and things have changed a lot.
i’m 60 and he’s nearly 50. we met when he was 25 and i was 35. our initial togetherness revolved around good times. PERIOD. i was a single mother taking care of myself. he was anything but. party guy. fast forward 6 years and my daughter graduates and i’ve got empty nest syndrome and he says he’s been “waiting for me” and moves 2 states away from his family to be with me. he’s always working and taking care of his share of bills. fast forward another 6 years and i leave him because his drinking has escalated to an unacceptable level. in my 40′s and single, i do some dating but remain single another 6 years. then i find him again, nearly derelict but quitting drinking. 6 months later, he’s sober and interested in US again. so i take him back (on condition – no drinking)
in the ensuing 7 years (i hope nobody’s counting) he’s been very sober, hard working, still lovely with my family, responsible and we get along pretty well. his long-standing bachelorhood does show up from time to time – in how often he disappears into a computer game, or fails to include me in weekend plans. but overall he’s been a peach, esp in light of seeing me become disabled.
i mention all that to point up what a difference a year or a month can make as we women get older. i worry about myself financially and know what a huge struggle it would be to get along without his support. i also know that finding another “Mr. Right” is very unlikely if we split up. it happens, of course, but i would not count on it for myself. i think it’s important to get your ducks in a row as much as you can – AND live for today. all i really have is this property, my daughter, sister, grandkids, my art, and a penchant for helping stray critters. i worked hard jobs for 40 years and loved my freedoms. i never put up with any guy’s ‘guff’ but now i find myself treading more carefully just to give things time. one day i’ll be more solidified financially. one day he may need me if he falls. i keep thinking about the saying ‘old age is not for sissys’. that is a fact. we need all the bolstering we can get.
i hope it all works out well for you. i also hope you don’t count on luck to sort it out. i’d take it one step at a time – one financial decision at a time, one agreement at a time, one year at a time. like the way i’ve steered my guy’s diet – less junk, more wholesomeness. one vegetable at a time
pretty soon you have a delightful salad. i have no idea what that metaphor means.
I like the salad metaphor. When it comes to things that I am passionate about, like education and child rearing, I am quick to point out that it takes years to grow a forest, and hours to cook a good stew. I just need to remind myself that I need to show the same kind of patience with myself. When I think back on where I was six years ago (grieving both the death of my father and my marriage) or where he and I were four years ago, I am astounded by the changes that crept along bit by bit to make a really nice life right now. Thanks for the support, the well tempered advice, and the story.
Georgia, I love your post. You sound like an intelligent and spirited woman who has navigated life’s choppy waters well. Your post brought to mind something I’ve had to deal with throughout my entire life: Timing is everything. We change. Situations change. I have a friend who recently reunited with a man she briefly dated 20 years ago. Years ago, they clashed too much and had different objectives. Now, they seem to be more aligned, softer around the edges and in a more compatible place in life.
It’s not always the case, but as our situations change, often our perspective, our needs, our wants do too. And, I like the salad metaphor – got it.
Time, patience, experience, age can be our friend.
A man of his age who has never been married, is simply not a good prospect for marriage. The reasons why he personally can’t/won’t do it–don’t matter. Forcing him to marry you will end up poorly. You will either lose him in the process or end up with someone who resents you for the coercion.
Is it possible that you can accept that he will not marry you, if he can legally accept financial responsibility for you during this nine year span. I am sure a lawyer can help you figure out a financial contract that would be binding. This seems like a careful, caring matter of
negotiating something you both feel is fair.
We cannot know what the future will bring, but a good family lawyer should be able to devise something you can both feel ok about. To take yourself out of the job market at this time of your life, suggests that trying to get back in, if something goes wrong five years from now could be a lot harder than you might anticipate.
Marriage does not equal commitment. It seems like he has committed to you already. Don’t let the norms of society dictate what is best for you. Marriage for this chap isn’t a good idea. Don’t push both of you into something that will harm the rest of your happiness together. Think of the best ways to get what you need for security, without forcing a marrage.
Best of luck. He does sound like a “keeper”.
Thanks for the words of support. He is a keeper. You are so right, you never do know what will come along next. My ex and I were the “picture perfect” couple and were happy for many, many years. Then he wasn’t and he didn’t know how to deal with that in a constructive manner. The point being, you can’t predict the future. I so totally agree with you that I can’t force him into marriage. Bad idea. I think I can learn to let go of the marriage thing. Certainly listening to some of these stories has helped. This is a good man who is kind, generous, smart, attentive, honest, hard-working, ethical (I could go on and on). If one of his few faults is that “marriage” scares him, I think I can live with that. It is an adjustment. Many of the stories here written by women who urged me to run to the hills had just the opposite effect – they reminded me just how good I have it in so many of the things that really count.
I guess I’m a bit old fashioned , but i feel that if a man will buy a license
for a dog , why can’t he buy one for me? (HUH). Have you read ,”Act like a woman, but think like a man? check it out I think it may prove to be raher helpful and answer a few questions that you have.
I will take a look at it. Thanks.