Vibrant Nation

I feel your pain.  I grew up with a mother who seldom had a good word to say to me.  It got to the point where I just stopped trying to please her anymore.

It also got to the point that after I married and moved to another city, I seldom visited.  One time we even went to the town she lived in and visited other family members but I didn't even call her while we were there.

If I had tried to make her understand that her hurtful words affected me the way they did she would have told me I was stupid to take things that way.  The truth is, hurtful words hurt for a long, long time.

She's been gone for almost 20 years now and I still can't completely forgive her, thinking about her insults and put downs still rankles.

I pray for the grace of forgiveness, for you and me and all those out there who need to let it go.

Five to Nine, do you feel better now?  I can relate to everything you're saying.  My father was also an alcoholic and growing up was "something" for all of us.  It's not just the person who suffers from alcoholism, its every one they touch.  Your mother being married to him, struggling to raise her children and then getting older and being ruled by her "painbody".  All of us are ruled in some way.  There's nothing you can do for her but step aside and know it's not you.  She has her demons.......well you already know what I'm telling you.  You are one smart lady.  I feel like we're sitting across from one another having our morning drink of choice and having a pity party. 

Let's just hold up our cups and salute them:

Here's to the Moms who think they're doing the right thing but make it worse, we know you love us.

Here's to the dad's who are chased by demon's and end up lost souls.  We know you loved us.

Here's to the brothers and sisters who are suffering in their ways by the same things. We know you love us.

Here's to US.  We love us and this too shall pass.

Cream and sugar?

Five to Nine:

Have you read?

I Am My Mother's Daughter

Making Peace With Mom Before It's Too Late by Iris Krasnow Hardcover - 0465037542 - $25.00 - Basic Books

Iris Krasnow, mother, daughter, and best-selling Journalist , tackles the toughest relationship in the lives of many grown women: the mother-daughter bond. With women's life expectancy inching up past eighty, you may be embroiled with your mother well past the time your own hair turns white. The good news: Living longer means more time to make peace - and this book shows you how.

Interesting responses.... and they're all over the map!  Those who've forgiven, those who can't forgive yet, those who found a way to understand and feel compassion for their mothers.  I'm not sure where I am in this.  I can't say I've forgiven her; I tolerate her.  I understand why she is the way she is; she had very little mothering when she was growing up and she did the best she could with the five she bore.  I get that.  But as an adult, I have made a choice to stop being the emotional punching bag that I let myself become all those years.  When she starts sniping about one of my siblings, I change the subject.  When she starts in on me with her disapproval, I change the subject.  When she calls, I don't feel the immediate need to answer; sometimes I let it go to voicemail and call her back when I'm ready.  She is who she is.... and I am who I am and it is what it is.  I love her but I don't like her and that's not likely to change.

Yes, Moon, I do feel better. (^_^)  Sometimes you just have to dump the stuff so you're not carrying it around, you know?

My relationship with my mom was much the same as you write about.  She never liked me, I wasn't needed.  She had my older sister and I was just a tag along.  But to my dad, I was everything so it evened out while I was a child.  My father died in 1994 and I felt like I lost my entire family at once.  But my sister was killed in 2001 and that left just me and my mom.  I had to limit my time with her but I did take care of her needs.  I would go plant flowers and spend time with her in the garden, which I loved.  I would take her to the doctors and do errands when I went to visit.  She lived an hour away.  She never got over my sister's death and died in 2006, basically from a broken heart.  Her last words to me while I sat beside her holding her hand in the hospital were "I want to go see my beautiful daughter", meaning my sis.  And what am I??? She kept me and my sister enemies for most of our years until about 6 months before my sister's death.  We hashed out our childhood and grew so close in those 6 months.  But I did forgive.  She did all she new how to do.  I don't know why she felt towards me what she did but the bottom line is, she did.  It doesn't make me who I am, I make me who I am.  I refuse to let someone, whether dead or alive, control who or what I am.  My x FIL told me once "you can blame your parents until you are 18, after that you are an adult and know right from wrong.  Do right and get over it"  That's the way I live now. 

I soooo understand and have much the same story with one unspoken exception.  Since you didn't mention I am not sure if your the only daughter.  I'm not but my mom could only find fault with me.  My sisters say it's because I'm the youngest and the mistake...thanks sister!  But my dad thought it was because she was a bit jealous of my relationship with him... I was the son he never had.  My sisters were girlie girls...I was the jock...of course my dad had an easier time with me.  I tried so hard for my mom to accept me and she never did.  Then I had a daughter.  I wanted to have with her what I never had with my mother.  It's not easy to make a little girl happy.  I had no idea;)

I also have a son, that relationship is easy, boys always love their mothers.  My daughter....not always.  Not until she was a mother and since then we have a open line of communication.  I often hear I favor my son...i did, but now I enjoy my daughters energy more.  Of course my son has always thought I fovored my daughter...no one is ever truly happy.

Once my father passed away, by the way he was a drinker too, only a happy drunk, anyway...I had nothing to talk to my mother for so I didn't,  I'd see her once in a while at my sisters or at a family reunion or what ever and we could be nice to one another but we never really missed each other.  When she died I didn't feel any guilt over our relationship.  We had what we both were available to and nothing more.  It worked for me. 

I cried at her funeral and my sister told me not to cry for her, she was happy in the end.  What my sister didn't know.  I wasn't crying for her, I was crying for me and the lost time we could have had.  Only when I had my daughter did I know the deep set distain my mom felt for me.  I couldn't face it then and was afraid to face it at her death.  NOw I know my mothers feelings about me were never meant to change.  She was who she was, now I can accept that.  I was a girl living in her home, my sisters were her daughters, I was my fathers daughter and still am today.  NOw I can accept it and not chastise myself. 

It's funny how people can grow up in one house and have different views on their upbringing.  One sibling held so much anger for mother and now in her sixties has come to some form of forgiveness.  I think my mother did the best with what she had.  She worked hard inside and outside the home.  Regardless, it seems that the anger and resentment my sibling had for our mother also got transferred to me.  Thus, I was cut off from her and her family.  I never gave up on her and still persist to get together.  But there are many topics we can't broach. 

I can relate to your post on so many levels. I think our mother's generation bereft of psychology ( Oprah. Dr Phil) did not conceptualize nuances.  Because earning a living was largely due to physical labor, there was no time to even acknowledge  individual needs  or emotions.

Parenting was in large part, a "one size fits all" occupation.

I wasn't raised by my mother. I saw her once a year during summer break

Then it was fun, the contrast between hers and the atmosphere in which I was raised.

Later I  came to understand it was highly dysfunctional.

Several years ago, my father, her ex husband, disowned me prompted by my step mother, due to my now ex husband's problems.

I was crushed. I kept asking my mother to appeal to my father on my behalf. She never did. I could never understand why. It came to me years later  she was incapable; She  herself was in a highly dysfunctional, verbally abusive relationship! She has little to no ability to advocate for anyone.  

It has been many years since my father's actions. I have since forgiven my mother  as well as my father.

It came to me one day while mediating that my mother lost her own mother at 14. She was raised motherless by a alcoholic father given to angry outbursts. My father meanwhile was raised in a family of ten siblings by a passive mother and a tyrant father.  

I healed myself via mediation and prayer.

It does not mean I indulge those who abuse me verbally. I too limit contact with those who continue to exclaim  my thoughts and emotions are not valid.  My father and mother are yet capable of issuing unsolicited directives as to how  I should live. Now, when they do,  I consider their own unacknowledged pain and backgrounds and refuse to internalize the poison they try to send  me. If I internalize their uninfomed directives, it would like swallowing posion because it would pain me.

 I am light years away from where I was during the time  my father disowned me.

 I am continuously  working to eradicate my own negative karma. The fact that my family members have yet to even recognize their own, will not impede mine.

Unlike our parents our generation has the benefit of self help. Just acknowledging we are in pain  is liberating.

If you haven't alreay read them I recommend; You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hays and The Four Agreements by Miguel Ruiz.   

Thanks for sharing your story . I can relate completely.

Hugs 

Hi there:

I didn't have a manipulative mother, but I feel your pain as my hurt and lack of self esteem comes from my father. He is still in the land of the living and will turn 89 this August. All I can say is that your skin never toughens up and your feelings will always be affected by this person, because I believe that when the hurting starts as a child, it never goes away. You are right to limit your interaction with your Mom as I have limited interaction with my Dad, even though I'm the only one left to make sure he is OK. My Mom passed over 20 years ago and my brother passed almost 9 years ago, so I am the only one left. My heart goes out to you, because I know what you're going through.

My goodness, someone else has similar feelings about their mother? I don't have anything to do with mine, no calls or visits for 10 years, I'm 55. It's Mother's Day, no card either.

Five to Nine~

I've been reading through the posts here. So much pain is poured out on these pages. Mothers and Fathers have so much power over us when we are so vulnerable and impressionable.

Motherhood is also a sacred cow. How dare we say that our Mothers didn't love us? Of course they did, they are Mothers. Ah, but the truth is, some people are just unable to love, whether they are mothers or fathers. They are just incapable of it. Or perhaps they are selective about it. Or manipulative with that "love." But in so many ways our mothers hold sway over us and so WE feel guilty if WE do not love them, or feel love from them.

As so many others I grew up in a dysfunctional home..... I don't know too many people who grew up in a functional one!

No one can make this walk of life for us, not even people who have shared a similar experience. We walk alone and make our choices based on our own experiences. So no one can say say what you should do, except perhaps to be kind to yourself. If we are very lucky in life we will have dear friends who will walk beside us and love us.

Sometimes it is right to just walk away, or limit your time with the person who hurts you so. Sometimes I have found it helpful to visualize negative comments passing over me as the person speaks. But all too often unkind comments pierce your heart.

I do know that a lot of years of therapy have helped me. Both of my parents are now dead, but I can tell you that the old tapes still run from time to time. I just have to remember to turn off the "voices" that are on those old tapes. Perhaps it was in finding myself and being able to recognize that I am a good and valuable person that has helped to heal me. Also many years in Al-Anon were a gift to my heart and soul to lift myself up from the mire.

I give you a lot of credit for saying what you think openly.

I think you are doing the right thing by spending less time with her. But that is only my opinion. I hope you will be comfortable with your choice and think it is the RIGHT thing for YOU to do now. You can always change your decision.

I hope you find peace and grace as you make your way along life's path.

Oh, I remember this so well!  Mother would call and I would shake during and afterwards, often in tears.

On incident after she had had a stroke, she was chatting away sweetly and then realized it was ME!  Went into how awful I had been.  I decided then, that we should NOT talk to one another again!  FOR one year, I did not call, and we did not speak.

Somehow, we began calling each other again, and she backed off of her criticism.  I think she knew I was capable of cutting her off totally.  It worked!  Perhaps thats the message you can give her.....that these hurtful remarks need to stop or you will stop them.  GOOD LUCK!  Blessings,  M

Your mom sound a lot like mine.  She still has her ways of making me feel guilty , even now that she has the being of dementia, she can make me feel like a small child.

Between my husband & both my sons who have been through this hell with me have told me to just go so far. call her when you want to say hello etc. then when she starts in  say good-by & hang up.

Works like a charm, Like you said..."I'm too old to take her crap!"

Hi Five to Nine,

First, there should be no guilt over running away from your father on that day. How could you not? How could you be expected to go through the torment of another crying and lamenting session.  Alcoholics are very good at that.  They are usually angry at themselves but pass the anger on to whoever will let them.  No ned for guilt.

I feel your mother has been very angry and in pain throughout her life and took it out on you.  Whether she had cause or not is inconsequential---she felt it was.  People do to us what we let them unfortunately.  You grew up feeling guilty and beat up. You probably didn't fight back.  You became her victim.  I feel bad for your years of unhappiness but I hope you don't come to regret turning your mother out of your life now.  She should have been told years ago just what she was doing and what it would result in.  Maybe even counselling. But don't hurt yourself any further.

 I went through a very unhappy time some years ago and became very depressed.  I went on medication but also retired from work and went to help out my daughter with her children since she was newly divorced.  It was not the time I should have been there.  She worked evenings and then stayed out a lot.  She didn't seem to have the time for me that I thought she should have.  I also found the two children had behaviour problems and needed constant attention but she would not back me up.  It felt like everything I did or said she went in the opposite direction.  Two unhappy women we were arguing constantly.  I resented being the full time baby sitter without anyway to get out and relax and she resented my 'nagging' her about it.  I finally left, but we have been many years getting our relationship healthy again.  She has since remarried and moved away with teens only to find out he was so controlling she couldn't go out of the room unless he let her.  It was a disaster, as I had tried to tell her.  But after she came home I figured I could say 'I told yo so' or I could learn to just shut up and support her.  Which is what I have done and we are friends again.  But there has been a lot of talking between us.

Mother and daughter relationships are delicate.  Nobody can hurt you as much as a parent can.  You want their approval and you get insults. I hope you have done the right thing for yourself and find happiness

Thank you for having the courage to post this.  Sharing your wounds is pretty scary.  Being heard is pretty necessary.  Being loved is imperative.  Unfortunately it only takes animal instincts to produce a child and soooo much more to love and nurture one.  It's fantasy to think every parent is capable of loving and nurturing other human beings.  People who love and respect other people don't physically or verbally slap them every time they come in contact.  It is not loving (to them or to you) to allow their bad behavior to continue unabated.  I've chosen to stay away and help them behave better by not being available to mistreat - ever.

I wish you (and me :)  peace

So sorry for your sadness. But your power is in being able to express it AND see all the caring responses.