Vibrant Nation

work & money

Shameless Self-Promotion OR Networking Amongst Peers?
posted 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Where does a conscientious person draw the line between shameless self-promotion and networking among friends and colleagues? 

My experience is that I am currently trying to launch a freelance writing career and finding some small success.  While I truly want my friends, including those friendships made here on Vibrant Nation, to read and comment on my humble beginnings of published pieces, and DO value others' opinions, I find this practice deeply embarrassing.

I am even wondering if it is unethical to write and ask directly for others to read and comment on pieces of writing which have been accepted, perhaps even on another website 

Oh, what to do?  How can I promote my writing and improve my skills without bugging others and/or embarrassing myself?

Any advice?

responses (19)

FancyFrancie said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

I think people would be thrilled to read and comment on your work, but allowing for the fact that all may not, just word your request with an easy out for those who may not have the time or want to do so. 

Fran Young said to FancyFrancie 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Thank you, ladies, for your insights! 

I have an idea.....What do you think of a posting area, here on VN, where all of us who have something we'd like to share could "show it off" and introduce it to the VN audience? 

For example, we have quite a few published authors.  And, there are women on VN who are quite accomplished artists in jewelry and fashion. Coaches and resume writers as well....

Do you think it would be a good idea to write to the "powers that be" for VN and request a category right here on Vibrant Nation, a category (to the left in blue) like 'work & money' or 'books'?  A category where we could announce our new products, our new writing, etc.?

Thanks SO much, all of you readers and responders....I'm really curious AND anxious to promote the many talents of us VN creative people!

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FancyFrancie said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Why not ask?  The worst that could happen is they say no.  There is probably a fine line between announcing work, products, etc. and getting too commercial, since VN isn't a site where folks sell work, but I'm sure that could be worked out.  I think the response from Claudia, who is a writer, has some very good suggestions for you too.

atk said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Fran, I think you have a GREAT idea!  I have just begun to work on a website for my new passion, handmade tassels,  and am trying to decide how to let everyone know about it!  This would be a wonderful way to launch some of us into business and acknowledge others who are already established but need to promote themselves!  Thank you for this suggestion- Hope it is adopted here. 

southernstarr said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

i would enjoy that very much as i have started a small home business in beaded jewelry and sometimes feel bad too on some postings but also do want my work out there at the same time so your idea would be great thanks fran

Evelyn M. said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

The only way to find out is to do it.  You may be surprised how Open minded people can be.  I would definitely look forward to reading more.

Fran Young said to Evelyn M. 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Evelyn - Are you just the sweetest! 

I'd love to hear what you think of my idea, above.  And, if you're really willing to reading more, I do SO appreciate your time.

I've had a very short (300 words) published on MORE.com.  It's a magazine, both on shelves and online, for women over 40.  At the very left of the top tool-bar is the Reinvention category, and first under that in the drop-down menu is "REINVENTION Story Contest".  You'll find my little piece there. It's called The Tough Foster Kid.

If you read it, I would be honored! 

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Five to Nine said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

As you know, I struggle with this one all the time so I'm so glad you posed the question!  I like FancyFrancie's answer re wording the request in such a way that the person doesn't feel pressured. 

I think it's fine to share info with others who are genuinely interested in your success, but it's hard to find the line sometimes, isn't it?  This has been an ongoing issue for me with my handcrafted jewelry business.  If friends and family sign up for my newsletter or they happen to see new items on my Facebook page, that's one thing.  But it bugs me when some of my crafty friends repeatedly push me to comment on their newest item or register on their blog.  The keyword here is REPEATEDLY.   I actually 'unfriended' someone on my Twitter page recently because of this!  I don't care for Twitter at all actually but I check my page occasionally and in this case, the entire first page and half of the next one was filled with entries from this one particular crafter.  She did this type of posting on a regular basis and it just got to be too much.

It's hard to find the line sometimes.  Sigh.

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Fran Young said to Five to Nine 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

You're absolutely right, Five to Nine.  I, too, hate when people and/or companies load up my inbox and phone with pleas for my time/energy to read and respond to each and every sneeze they think is creative.

I'm really very interested in what you think of my above idea to FancyFrancie.  For example, if it hadn't been for you and your gorgeous jewelry on Etsy, I would never have found that site (ALL handmade items, folks.  It's fantastic!), and now I truly LOVE the site and especially your jewelry designs. In fact, since finding Etsy I can't seem to stay away and now am thinking of a new side business and money-making opportunity for myself and another creative friend.  Plus, I've purchased six things so far, including supplies for future artist plans.

So, the question remains.....how CAN we pursue interest in others to check out and perhaps become fans of our designs, skills, and hopefully, writing?  Do you think it would be a help to appeal to the VN powers to give us our own space for promoting our creative ventures? 

Claudia said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

I’m a professional writer.  I don’t want to show off my work.  I want to be paid for it.  I think if you want your writing career to take off, you have to take your writing seriously. 

Write and submit over and over and over again.  If you’re lucky, you’ll get the editorial feedback you’re looking for.  Value it because it’s an indication that you have something of interest to the people in the publishing community.  And the very least that will happen is you will improve your writing.

Connect with writing communities online.  You will find that writers are, for the most part, generous with their time and information.  Find the sites that suit you, subscribe to their feeds, and get involved. 

If you can afford it, join a professional writing association as an associate member (or as full member if you qualify).  It will give you an opportunity to meet professional writers, to learn from them, and to take advantage of the professional development events they provide on a regular basis.

I would be reluctant ask a friend or family member to review my work unless they are a professional in the field who can give honest and constructive feedback. 

Learn as much as you can about the use of plain language and how to keep the clutter out of your work.  Make every word count.

I would not write for any of the content mills.  They invest nothing in helping writers improve their craft and they pay starvation wages.  I’m certainly not telling you what to do but I personally would not get involved in a system that devalues my profession.

You know, Fran, there are so many things you can do to improve your skills if you’re serious about writing.     

Good luck and contact me if there’s anything I can do to help.  Take care.

Claudia

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Fran Young said to Claudia 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Hi Claudia - Your response has really made some points clear to me about how I should progress:

1.  I DO want to be paid for my work, not so much because of the money, but because if my writing is good and profitable, I expect to reap my reward.  Being recognized as someone who has something worthwhile is the goal of my writing interest.  If I'm not being paid, I'm not being recognized.  Period.  Funny, but I hadn't really delineated this yet in my mind...

2.  Following #1, I am not going to write for the content mills.  You're right that writing for them devalues my profession.  Again, no pay = no respect/recognition.

3.  Family members/social network/friends are probably not professionals in the writing field, so why ask them to provide feedback?  The only exception for this would be to have a very close friend to read a fictional piece to get honest feedback reaction on how it resonates, especially if it's based on an experience which we may have shared.

4.  Plain language and decluttering...very good suggestions for all writing and I'm learning how to do this better with each piece I write.

5.  I'm soon participating in a writing conference, and am looking for a writing group near my soon-to-be home.  Receiving feedback, mentoring, and the opportunity to find a friendly opportunity to share and grow in my writing are my goals.

Again, thank you for helping me to pinpoint my motives and clarify my goals in writing.  I know the points I'm making above are just regurgitating what you've said, but your words help me to get very clear on what and why I'm writing.  Thank you SO much!

persimian said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

When I first decided to go "independent through freelance" I bothered my friends to buy this and buy that and do this and do that.  After a while they started avoiding me and I realized the reason was because I was ALWAYS approaching them to increase my business.  I stopped networking with them (because I WANT TO KEEP MY FRIENDS) and stopped selling products that I had to buy and couldn't sell and was stuck with.  I then decided to do virtual assistance/personal assistance work.  I was also Blessed to find a low-paying job with a gentleman who is sooooo successful independently that he offered to show me some of the tricks of the trade and connect me with some of his clients if I would work with him.  I found out that one of the things I DEFINITELY need to do (and am doing now) is marketing, marketing, marketing. I couldn't afford to have business cards made up so I found some through Avery.  I made up business cards, flyers, posters, etc.  My best friend saw how determined I was and offered to give out flyers for me - along with her ex-husband and my brother has also utilized my services.  My Dad - who knows how hard it is to start a business as he was a businessman when he retired offered to give out my flyers and such to his former customers and friends in his neighborhood.  My Mom is still unsupportive - but that's ok, I don't expect much from her anyway.   I have advertised on Craigslist, Facebook, SpiderBiz, Tweeter and this website through my bio page.  And I'm still not finished - I hope to be able to advertise in our local newspapers before the Spring comes in.  I have mailed flyers, business cards and posters - along with pens, candy, stick-ups and such with my company name and logo to potential clients.   I even had a stamp pad made up through Vista with my company name and logo on it.  I found that if I keep myself out there - eventually people will notice. 

Now  Fran, I will tell you, there is no shame in my game.  If I think there's an opportunity to do business with someone I don't hesitate to let them know.  The most that can be said is No - but guess what?  My name is now something that will stick in their minds in case someone needs my service in the future.   I am not successful by a long shot (as a matter of fact, aside from the gentleman I am working with I only have one other ongoing client).  But I know that if I keep at it I will be sucessful sooner than later.  As I said I am a virtual assistant, my website is posted on my bio page.  Not only can I do business with you - but I have soooooo many cancer  stories that I am willing to share it's mind boggling.  I need someone to get my story out (as I had tried writing about my experiences) just as you need contacts.  There is nothing to be ashamed of in marketing.  Like I said the most that can be said is NO.  Please visit my website.  If you think we can work togther, please feel free to contact me.  If not, I hope I've given you some good advice on how to get started.

NanaCatharine said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

I've found this thread very interesting.  As a realtor in my 25th year, I've found I've made some good solid decisions that have served me well.

One of those decisions was I do not rely on family and friends for business.  I have actually an amazing distance between my family/social life and my business.

I prospect for business.  I market for business.  I own my business.  I am responsible for my business.  And one thing I do really well is create new business for myself.   Past clients are often my best clients and a wonderful source of referrals.

I seldom, if ever even mention what I do for a living in social settings.   And one reason I do this is because people want to know something, want to tell me their last real estate story, want free information, and on and so forth.  I often give them my business card and ask them to call me at the office in the morning.  Putting things on a more professional level indicates to them I expect to get paid for professional advice.

I am not interested in seeking professional information or feedback from anyone other than seasoned professionals in my own industry.

I also expect to pay for professional services I use frequently to support my own business.  These industries might include professional video services, professional IT and Social media industries, professional Staging services, and others.   

Professionals recognize other Professionals. 

Fran Young said to NanaCatharine 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Thanks for your insight, Catharine.  I definitely DO appreciate your comments about not relying on family/friends/social contacts for business. That's exactly what I hope to do as I embark upon my "encore" career of freelance writing.  Like you, I want to keep my friends as just that.

I'm wondering if you could elaborate on how, in year 1 or 2 of your real estate business, you successfully created new business for yourself without involving your friends, family and social network?  I'm asking in the broad sense of how those of us starting new professions can promote ourselves as you suggest, without relying on those in our social and family life.  How do we establish our business/skills and help it grow while also allowing for your professed "amazing distance between family/social life and business"?  That's what I desire in my professional focus!

I know I do pay for professional services such as fees for writing competition submissions, and plan to attend several writing conferences to develop my skills and learn how to reach publishers more effectively.  I believe that funding such experts is karmic in a sense, and that beyond all the benefits from what I'm learning, what goes around, comes around.  I'm happy to pay to learn from others.

But for VN women, do you have some broad suggestions on promoting our work (be it jewelry designs on Etsy.com, or books we've self-published, or skills we would like to professionally share such as career coaching), sharing our successes and introducing them to others, without the hardsell feeling?

You've been more than generous with your suggestions in the above post.  Any more you can say about your "good solid decisions that have served me well"?  You have a lot to say, and we're listening!

NanaCatharine said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Thanks for the compliment.  I don't feel very qualified to answer your question about business success other than in my own industry.  

One thing I do remember in my first months in real estate I complained to the broker I wasn't getting any leads.   He tore a page out of the phone book, and handed it to me.  

What's wrong with a hardsell feeling?  Would you feel comfortable having a realtor who wasn't well skilled in the art of negotiation?  And representation?  

I'm uncomfortable with your chosen word "professed".  And not sure why you seem to have a problem with the idea that I do not rely on family and friends for business.

When I think back to 25 years ago I picture myself learning as I go.  And making mistakes that cost me, and taking actions that surprised me with a result I wasn't expecting.  

An example of this that comes to mind, was having an offer torn up in my face and thrown at me.   One week later I showed up on his doorstep with the exact same offer and the man was thrilled to accept  it.  I gave him a 2nd opportunity to accept the same offer he refused one week earlier.  

25 years later I often have new agents appear at my door, asking what to do, and it comes a rather a shock to them that just because they have a real estate license doesn't mean they know how to sell anything.   Or how to go about building a business.  

And many realtors work very very differently.  So I can only suggest you try different avenues and discover what works for you.  

I envy new business owners today who have the benefit of all sorts of social media we would never dream of 25 years ago.   I'm in the process of building a presence in the target market I want right now.  It's been a real learning curve.  And I've seen a lot of realtors my age drop out because they can't keep up with the ever changing technology. 

I'm still typing and still at a loss as to what your looking for.  Do you have a business model?  A business plan? Mentors? Surround yourself with people who want the same results that you want?

One thing I do have is an extensive data base.  And follow up plan.  I work on the telephone a lot!  And inspite of the new Do Not Call List, am quite successful at it.

I do not send out flyers, I do not do mail outs, I do not do auto generated email lists, nor do I promote myself outside of my target area.  

You want to turn leads into appointments, and appointments into contracts.

I've often been told I'm one of those agents who can pull a deal out of the air.  

And there seems to be some cosmic law in effect.  If I keep myself in focus and do the work I know how to do to generate new business it just appears.  And often from a totally unexpected source.  

I also am in the very very beginning process right now of committing to basically a master mind club of 9 agents drawn from across 6 offices who have a set goal for the next 4 years.  The invitation was offered company wide, and only about 20 people showed up for the presentation, and only 9 people have signed the first intent to proceed.  

I can only say my business is unique and personal to me, and I've discovered what works for me, and most of my clients are repeat clients.  

 

 

Fran Young said to NanaCatharine 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

"I'm uncomfortable with your chosen word "professed".  And not sure why you seem to have a problem with the idea that I do not rely on family and friends for business."

Merely semantics, my dear.  Perhaps my 'problem' is that it 'seems' I should have chosen another word, a word such as "proclaimed"? 

I don't have any problems with your ideas, BUT very much do appreciate your advice and encouragement for all of us here on VN.  Thank You!

JoanPrice said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Fran, the easiest way to do this is to fill out your VN profile! There you can talk about writing, link to your website, talk about your career and aspirations, etc. Then you can direct people there, and those who want more information will follow you and read. Try that! So VN is already set up for what you're asking for, if I understand you right.

- Joan

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Fran Young said to JoanPrice 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

Good suggestion, JoanPrice. 

I just finished reading a fine book on memoir writing, Old Friend from Far Away, by Natalie Goldberg.  She quotes Wm. Faulkner as saying about plot:  "it's that 'thin red line' that runs through the text."  She goes on to say, "I call that 'red line' spine.  Get a strong spine and you have freedom of movement.  Often shaped like an arc, it holds up and drives the story forward."

I'm searching for that thin red line, that spine for my own writing.  You're right!  I should begin right here by filling out my VN profile.  And, I will. 

Thank you for your suggestion!

Marjorie Claire said to Fran Young 02/06/2010, 03:56PM new!

I did not read all the posts here.  My short membership with VN leads me to believe that most women will tell you what they think.  So if you are bugging anyone they will let you know.  Looking forward to reading your work.  Have Fun!, Marj

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