Vibrant Nation

Nope, once they are legal they want the same wages as the rest of us.

Lynnette, Same everything and Last year or two, on a Monday illegals protested to be treated fairly, they closed down businesses and some businesses joined them. Where I work, one of the delis' close that Monday, I never stepped foot in there again. So many people don't care but all want here cause they don't eat or live well in their countries. Why don't they stay in their countries and fight for themselves? Since they know how hard it is to live in those countries, why keep making babies? They can't afford to feed themselves, why bring in children and then cry, help us feed them?...TRACK

And just think, those babies will be here as citizens and they will not want to make low wages either.  They'll go to public schools, colleges and get educated and-you guessed it, take the better paying jobs right out from under us.  They have a better chance here under those conditions than in their own country.  PLUS, they want to keep their culture in tack. 

Doesn't citizenship mean that they're one of us?

I don't know who us is.  I'm American, born to Americans and not to illegals.

I don’t know who us is either.  In your reply to TRACK, you made a reference to those babies as being here, which I took to be the U.S.A., as citizens, which I took to be citizens of America, who will go to public schools and colleges, get educated and take the better paying jobs right out from under us, which I took to be Americans.  My point was that once these babies are citizens of the U.S.A., there is no difference between you – there is no us and them -  and as such, they are no less entitled than you are to take those better paying jobs if they’re qualified for them.  If I misunderstood your reply to TRACK, I apologize.

No, my concern is that we allow this proceedure to happen.  For anyone here illegally, having a child on U.S. soil automatically makes that a citizen.  My point is, they come over illegally, have children on our (tax payers) dime and they grow up.  You can bet they are not going to go out and pick lettuce.  It's simple math.  They will be competing for jobs too.  

Stevie, I read your bio.  Are you living in the US?  It really is a problem for the border states.  These jobs that most people don't want can be done legally.  Ilegals are picked up and run through a system that is overlooked by the most part.  Now that a state is stepping up and say: "You will obey the law", then saying it's ok for them to work because "no-one" wants those jobs.  I would love to see the companies that hire illegals have to step up and hire people who are legal and pay decent wages, and with good working conditions.  Sure the costs will go up.  Of course, there is no free ride it seems, except for the illegals. 

Stevie, By illegals means, illegal parents...TRACK...You are what your mother is, illegal...JESUS was a jew by way of this mother, check?

If nothing is done about the border, others will keep coming to take their place..........and wages will stay low.

Wages stay low in general because corporate executives refuse to share the wealth.

I think it's a catch 22 - if people organize because their wages and working conditions are poor - then we blame their unions. If they don't organize then the employers pay as little as possible to get by. I totally agree with you that no one should be paid a wage they can't live on but I'm not sure companies will pay more - they will find other ways around increasing wages. 

Another reason corporations go overseas:  to avoid big labor and the cost of doing business with thugs.  Unions were so beneficially to the auto, airline and steel industries.

Americans are confounding.  As shareholders, of course they want the companies they invest in to make a profit.  So as shareholders they scream for those profits.  Americans also want the cheapest product.   But they also demand the highest possible wage and unionize against corporations in corporate campaign warfare.   ANd when companies respond to all those incompatible demands through offshoring, then Americans complain about jobs going overseas. 

Yakkity's post actually contained pieces of good advice (choose who you do business with, buy American, etc.)  Except for that last unexplained bit about molotov cocktails that is.

Hi Dallas Lady - The other side of the coin is that corporate greed is such that they treat employees poorly, have unsafe working conditions, fail to modernize and prepare to compete in a global market, and blame unions for everything. Unions or no unions, corporate greed, is a major issue. 

it did not pass because it is discriminatory for those of us with brown skin, all of us, including Americans.  When you give the police the right to stop you because of the color of your skin that is called profiling.  Ask any black person in Beverly Hills or in a "white" neighborhood.

The law did not give police the right to stop anyone because of the color of their skin.  That was a fear mongering reaction from the liberal left. The law is written and expressly prohibits any racial profiling. THe law specifically says that the person must be stopped for some OTHER violation of the law. And in fact it is already federal law that any alien in this country must carry papers on them. So all the Arizona law did is reinforce the already on the books federal law.......the one that isnt being enforced for political expediency reasons for the reasons Scuba Pattty mentioned.  As far as comparing Beverly Hills to Arizona.............there are more brown people in Arizona than any other color.  The law enforcement there also has a large number of members who are of latino and/or american indian heritage.  

Thanks Dallas for explaining that further.  Yes, we have many, many latino cops.  I guess they would have to show papers to each other!

POR FAVOR!!!  You must be a white woman who has never been stopped by the police for any reason at all.  We get it all the time, FOR NO REASON AT ALL!  As a matter of fact, i was driving down Hialeah and the cop was checking my tag.  I did not even noticed it, my white friend did.  FOR NO REASON AT ALL.... but because my last name happens to be of german descent, i passed.

I am a white woman who has been stopped for reasons ... speeding, tail light out, etc.  -- and also have been stopped for ansolutely no reason at all....at check points when they are  checking licenses, registration and insurance of everyone.   I've been stopped by cops of all ethnicities.  And I never once thought I was stopped because I was white or they were not.  Because if I'm innocent, it doesn't matter if they stop and ask me anything......if I'm innocent, I simply comply, and go back about my day without assigning some sinister motivation to others.

 And yes, I've seen police pull up beside me and look over to see if my registration is out of date, or seen them behind me and appear to run my tag too.  Again, if I'm innocent, so what -- why the heck would  even possibly care? Or jump to the conclusion they are out to get me for being of a different race, gender, or even just plain driving a car they have jones for?

I am so sick of this bullshit and anti-white rhetoric about how only non-whites get stopped by police.  Years ago I had so many tickets at one time that my license was almost suspended (over $600 in fines).  White police stopped me all the time.  In fact, the only time I was stopped and didn't get a ticket was from a Black officer. Police patrolling the streets check tags all the time - it's part of their job.  Maybe if you stop being paranoid long enough you'll see that it's done to everyone not just to brown skinned people. 

Scuba -

HOW DARE YOU! !!!!  Again, I did NOT post this to have a debate on immigration law but you want to take it there, fine.  But how the hell do you DARE talk about being "sick of the BULLSHIT of anti-white rhetoric...."!  Racism is alive and well in this country and if you don't believe so, you are delusional.  No, I forgot -- you have the LUXURY of being "sick of it" being a white woman.  People of the dominant culture don't have to spend much time worrying about whether this law will be applied unfairly due to an individual officer's inner prejudice. 

I am offended by you and your startaments and furthermore, it is off-the-chart rude of you to come in here and push this conversation somewhere it was not intended to go.  As a woman of color, your comments offend and insult me.  I said I was done with this thread, but if you want to talk about this, BRING IT ON so that I can EDUCATE you on life as a person of color in this country in this decade with or without citizenship status. 

There are none so IGNORANT as those who refuse to see!

First of all, you were the one who started us on AZ's immigration law.  You started that not me.  And if you think that racial stereotypes and hatred only go one way, then you are sadly mistaken and need to enlighten yourself. 

I am fully aware of the disgraceful and despicable history of racism in this country, having read lots, having taken Black History classes, having listened to friends experiences, and so on.  And yes, it continues to this day. 

But no, I don't need an education from you, and you don't need to be insulted because I didn't say anything that should offend you.  I made that comment because of the stereotype that was made about how whites do not get stopped by police - which is so outrageous.  I never said that non-whites are always paranoid about police, I said that Lynette was paranoid because of the ridiculous assumption she made, that was also full of racial hostility.  Do you really think that non-whites don't have racial hostility? 

I would love to have a discussion about race, but people on VN are much too quick to label each other racists without knowing facts or even asking the right questions. 

You take care now.

Please explain where in the law you read that people can be stopped for brown skin.  If that were the case, I'd be out there protesting too.   

That is exactly the point, it does not say it.... but they do it.  You have to be my skin color to understand.  Sorry, i cannot explain it to you because it will never make any sense to you.

You can't explain it because it doesn't make sense.  Incidentally, where do you get your information from?  "The law doesn't say it but they do it" - Really! 

Scuba, It is true, we get stopped for the color of our skin and if we have a nice car. Sad but true. These policepersons are raised in families that teach the hate of dark skin. Now that doesn't not mean that dark skinned people are not hateful of white skin also. There are many layers to this ungodly practice and much is hidden behind religion of all stripes. Believe me if you will, it is taught a home first, then extend family, friends teachers and manipulating media that we tune in everyday to. Check New York/New Jersey profiling news it's not nice...TRACK 

Yes Lilly, of course you know this for certain don't you?  I think the "advantage" you speak of can be seen below:

"The Irish poor lived in basements, cellars, and one-room apartments lacking natural light and ventilation and frequently flooded with sewage. They suffered from alarmingly high rates of cholera, yellow fever, typhus, tuberculosis, and pneumonia. They also succumbed to mental illnesses, often complicated by alcohol abuse. They accounted for a greatly disproportionate number of admissions to poorhouses and public hospitals, and they topped the charts for arrests and imprisonment, especially for disorderly conduct. In New York City in 1859, for example, 55 percent of all people arrested were of Irish origin."

http://www.america.gov/st/peopleplace-english/2008/February/20080307131416ebyessedo0.6800043.html

The Irish was a group who mixed with the Moors , the Irish prople, even today are"Teased"bout their Black roots.

Today the largest percentage of people arrested are AA and L A .

There is a book that would help shed light on this subject of profiling and justice with facts and statistics.

THE NEW JIM CROW BY MICHELLE ALEXANDRA,

The quote I gave referred to the 19th century, not the present.

 I am not talking just about the present it started long before.

Read the history on it... it was  The Moors 1492  .... There is a book by Dr. Ivan Sertima  Golden Age of the Moors  , The real history has been kept not only from AA but also from WA in this country.

T, I'm talking about legal immigrants.  My grandparents came here legally too. I think you and I are on the same page with this issue because I've seen your other posts.  We both support the AZ immigration law.